Glorious Broad / Glorious Brawn #27: Charles Busch

CHANNELING JUDY GARLAND AT THE PALACE — WITH A TAD OF BRUNO MARS

ALL PHOTOS BY KATRINA DEL MAR @KATHRINA DEL MAR PHOTOGRAPHY
CD: MARYJANE FAHEY
H/MU: VIRNA SMIRALDI

IN THE COMFORT OF HIS WEST VILLAGE LAIR …

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Playwright, Actor, Cabaret Entertainer, Drag Legend

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Outrageous Raconteur, Drag and Hollywood Royalty, Grande Dame

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Hilarious, Survivor, Poetic, Profound

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“I think it was inevitable that I’d become an actress.”

Charles Busch is having a moment. Again. Still. Forever.

I’ve been on the Busch bandwagon since “Vampire Lesbians of Sodom” lured me into The Limbo Lounge — and Charles Busch — in mid 80’s.

Reading his latest, “Leading Lady, a Memoir of a Most Unusual Boy” — I re-lived those east village days, those early NY theater moments. I laughed. I cried — and I wrote him. Would he let me interview him as a Glorious Broad? As a Glorious Brawn? And here we are.

In his ruby red bordello-like home, surrounded by posters, paintings, shrines of himself and the women close to him, I got to behold a portrait of his mentor, his very own Auntie Mame — Aunt Lillian. My heart skipped. Get the book.

Sip an extra dry martini and settle in for an extended chat with the very Glorious Charles Bush, a most unusual Boy / Man / Diva.

WHAT DREW YOU IN TO THIS HOLLYWOOD OVER-THE-TOP BROAD WORSHIP?
Well, It’s a bigger story. My father was obsessed with opera and wanted — needed — to be an opera singer. So as a 7-year-old, I was brought to the old Metropolitan Opera House. That experience stayed with me — the fascination with the opulent, the decadent, the Diva.

AND THEN THE MOVIES …
I’ve been watching classic film on TV from as early as I can remember — Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Norma Shearer, Rosalind Russell.

AND THEATER?
Even better. At 10, my Aunt Lillian gave me a big coffee table book called “Stars of the American Stage.” I still have it. Lillian Russell, Katherine Cornell, Tallulah Bankhead. Through this book, I could imagine…

I think it was inevitable that I’d become an actress.

I ATE UP YOUR BOOK “LEADING LADY” a Memoir of a Most Unusual Boy — AND THE NUMBER OF WOMEN IN YOUR LIFE EARLY ON. LIKE AUNT LILLIAN …
I was basically raised in a matriarchal family. Two older sisters and two Aunts on my mother’s side were my main figures. Particularly my mother’s oldest sister, Aunt Lillian.

WAS SHE YOUR BIGGEST INFLUENCE?
My biggest. My style of storytelling was very influenced by her.

She was reserved. But with me – some of the things she said were rather inappropriate to say to a little boy — but I was just this great audience.

WELL. DO TELL!
While she’d be folding clothes she’d be talking about outrageous fantasies she’d have about other people’s sex lives. She was very feminist but couldn’t say feminism — it was associated with unattractive ladies somehow. But she was a feminist in a profound sense.

SO YOU HAD YOUR OWN AUNTIE MAME.
I really did. I mean she wasn’t the kind of woman who “dahlink” — she was different. Sometimes I relate her to David Copperfield’s Aunt Betsey. Or Helen Keller’s Anne Sullivan …

EXTREMES
Well, she was slim, elegant — in that sense she was Auntie Mame like. But I needed a lot of nurturing when my sister and I went to live with her after my mother’s death. I was flunking out of school. I was fucked up. She was extremely intellectual and just wouldn’t give up on me …

AND SHE DIDN’T TRY TO CHANGE THE UNUSUAL BOY THAT YOU WERE.
I think it was just a lucky break for her that I was a kid fascinated by culture.

AND NOT BASEBALL. HA. WAS SHE AN IDEAL PARENT?
Nobody has an “ideal” parent.  But. She knew that I was a professional before I was a professional.

“I would not want to be starting out today trying to do outrageous comedy — when you can’t outrage any more. ”

WHEN DID YOU START UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU FELT MORE COMFORTABLE ON STAGE AS AN ACTRESS — NOT AN ACTOR?
It was seeing Charles Ludlam at The Ridiculous Theatre when I was about 17. He’d play one of my favorites, Marguerite Gautier in Camille. And other members in his theater played female roles. That was my awakening.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT BEING CALLED “THE GODMOTHER OF DRAG” NOW?
That’s fine.

BUT DRAG IS ONE THING. THEATER QUITE ANOTHER…
Exactly. And there’s a direct theatrical lineage from Charles Ludlam, to Charles Busch to Jinkx Monsoon. Jinkx was in Chicago and really has it. When somebody is that talented — it is hard to be envious.

ENVIOUS?
Look, I would like to have performed on Broadway in a play of mine. I have had plays on Broadway as a playwright. But I’ve never been in them. But Jinkx? Go for it.

Let’s Talk Sex

IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE GREAT SEX AND A GREAT LIVING COMPANION?
The question that I have never known — or that I have never experienced is — how much sex do long term partners really have?

I WONDER …
’Cause you can’t really ask anybody. Sigh … I am such a creature of the ‘70s.

MEANING?
I came of sexual age just after Stonewall. 1972 esh. The slogan was “Too many men too little time” — the era of gay men. I never completely understood, how can you be with somebody – arguing over …

GARBAGE PICK UP
Yeah — and then want to have hot wild sex with them in the evening. Wouldn’t that put a damper on it?

SO YOU HAVE NEVER ACTUALLY LIVED WITH ANYONE.
Not romantically. I’ve never made finding a partner the main priority in my life. My artistic life and creativity has always been the most important thing to me so, getting laid or finding a romantic partner has been secondary.

SO DO YOU HAVE A PEDRO ALMODÓVAR KIND OF FAMILY?
I do.

I have a small circle of people around me who I love and they really love me. And I know when disaster strikes — they are there.

I’m also kind of mama to emotionally fragile people in their mid 30s. It’s very sweet. One of them calls our group “the firm” — I guess like the royal family. (laughs)

LET’S TALK “TOO MANY MEN” …
I’m 69 now and I’ve had enough sex for the city of Cleveland — in the 70s 80s 90s. My young friend Doug, one of my kids, he was saying: How many people have you had sex with? I said: I don’t know, a couple of thousand…

How much does an orgy count? When you actually had 17 people at the same time? Does that count … separate? (laughs)

I LOVE THAT YOU HAVE DIFFERENT AGE FRIENDS.
Well, you gotta have friends who can take care of you. Ya know?

“I have a small circle of people around me who I love and they love me. And I know when disaster strikes — they are there. ”

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT GENDER. WHAT IS YOUR FEELING ABOUT THIS HUGE CHANGE IN OUR CULTURE?
Sometimes I think I am the most simple person in the world. My pronouns are he/him and yet …when you write a memoir, you do have to think about things you haven’t really thought about before.

LIKE …
I am this generation of drag performer that — it was so important for us to be taken seriously as professionals. We were apoplectic if somebody referred to us as just “drag queens” — if we detected the slightest bit of patronization.

But I get embarrassed reading old interviews where I had to make it absolutely clear that there was no ambiguity at all. If I put on a dress, it’s because it’s a play and nothing to do with who I really am.

And its bullshit.

BULLSHIT?
Because, listen. If I spent 50 years where my creativity is filtered through a female persona, there has got to be something rather deep about it. I don’t need to analyze it. But I do need to give it credit.

Somehow, though, I identify with being a fella — I have an androgenous nature. I enjoy both. A question of really — walking through one archway and coming back in.

AND NOW, THE RU PAUL’S OF THE WORLD HAVE TAKEN OVER. HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?
Well, its just so odd that on one hand you have the RuPaulisation of culture from all over the world and at the same time, there is this weird conservatism trying to outlaw drag. I think it’s all very cynical.

Can We Be — Outrageous?

WE ARE IN SUCH A POLITICALLY CORRECT MOMENT — DO YOU FEEL THAT THIS IS GETTING IN YOUR WAY AS A PLAYWRIGHT?
It is hard. I have a new play coming out and it is very likely my last. I would not want to be starting out today trying to do outrageous comedy when you can’t outrage any more.

I KNOW FROM YOUR BOOK THAT JOAN RIVERS WAS YOUR PAL. TALK ABOUT NOT GIVING A SHIT ABOUT WHAT WAS POLITICALLY CORRECT.
She’d be canceled every day! It was starting to happen before she died. And she was so defiant about it.

SURROUNDED BY ALL THINGS CHARLES. CREATED BY CHARLES. PAINTED BY CHARLES.

IF YOU COULD BE THAT 18 YEAR-OLD KID AGAIN – WHAT WOULD YOU ADVISE HIM?
If I could come back from the future I would say — it’s gonna work out, honey. There was a quote from Jean Cocteau I read about that age that had great resonance for me. I’m gonna paraphrase it but – “Whatever it is that people condemn you for — cultivate that — ‘cause that’s who you really are.” And that’s what I did.

AND IS THAT THEME HELPING YOU NOW?
Absolutely. When I get into some new area — like becoming a cabaret singer for the past fifteen years, I had to say to myself — what do I have to offer? And not be negative about it.

EVEN YOU.
Oh yeah. I thought, okay, I have a decent singing voice. But there are a lot of people who have a stronger voice than you. But I am a storyteller. I can take a song and make it into a little play.

And I’ll make that work.

SO YOU HAVE AN INNER DEMON…
Of course. It’s so easy to say — oh I can’t do that. And most things in life I cannot do. Everything is an issue. My Aunt used to say — your problem is that you don’t anticipate. And I don’t anticipate.

That’s why I always need somebody to help me. Somebody always needs to help me.

“I’m 69 now and I’ve had enough sex for the city of Cleveland. ”

LET’S TALK ABOUT YOUR REACTION TO THE OVER-THE-TOP REVIEW OF VAMPIRES LESBIANS OF SODOM BY FRANK RICH …
What a night. I had struggled for so long and this rave review in the New York Times came out and, backstage in the green room — the cast was carrying on as if the Titanic had been raised and the passengers and crew were alive. I mean…and there’s me.

I left the party in the green room, went into the dressing room, closed the door and just sobbed. I could see that this was 11 years or more of the struggle. So much discouragement. Doing all these cockamamie part time jobs to piece together a living. How I wish I could have just been — WHOOPIE!

SO WHAT IS NEXT FOR YOU?. I READ SOMEWHERE IT IS ABOUT A GRAND DAME WHO’S BEEN SEXUALLY AWAKENED.
Oh there you go — always going to the sex part.

AND BY A SAILOR!
I read a big fat biography of Henrik Ibsen, and I’m turning me into an Ibsen like character — a Hedda Gabler — a Mrs. Alving — kind of. I am Ibsen’s widow who, as you said, gets to be sexually awakened by a young sailor. It’s fun — and its comedy drama.

WHEN? WHERE?
"Ibsen's Ghost; An Irresponsible Biographical Fantasy."  We open at the George Street Playhouse in New Brunswick, NJ, Jan 19 - Feb 4, and then at Primary Stages in NYC March 4 - April 14.

BUT YOU HAVE BEEN THREATENING LEAVING THE STAGE.
This “8 a week” is really difficult. When we were doing our last play, “The Confession of Lily Dare,” at The Cherrry Lane — just a 5 minute walk from here — I’d look out the window at 5pm and I’d think — oh, I have to now begin my day at 8:00 PM — peak energy, focus and concentration.

I’m getting older. And now it’s this insecurity that you’re gonna go up on a line and make a fool of yourself. So that’s why I really would doubt that after new this play, I would do it again. But then — you never know.

WHAT WOULD YOU FOCUS ON?
I think I would keep my hand in the cabaret world. It’s like 2 nights here and there. I’d do that and writing.

Life Is a Cabaret

I MISSED YOUR WHOLE CABARET MOMENT. HOW’D THAT HAPPEN?
Well, it’s been a while. In the early 90s, I was working at The Ballroom, a lovely cabaret room that was in NYC, where I’d be Josephine Baker like, changing gowns, doing sketches, singing, having dancers — that started me off.

Then about 15 years ago, I got a call for a gay cruise — and they had a budget. I called my friend Tom Judson for music and direction. And I decided I really wanted to sing this time. I took lessons, Tom pushed me with more complicated music, and I assumed I would be in drag, ‘cause — that is what people expect.

WE DO.
Yeah. But I’d be introduced as: Here he is Charles Busch — and I’d come out looking like Arlene Dahl and sing some Sondheim and Jimmy Webb. I no longer understood why I was in drag — other than they are expecting and I am enjoying. But …

ARE YOU GOING TO TELL ME YOU DE-DRAGGED?
I am. I did. I made the radical move to de-drag about seven years ago. I was just wearing black shirt black pants and I felt totally confident. The same act. People loved it.

BUT WHY WERE YOU BEING SO EITHER OR?
Exactly. Do I have to look like a cater waiter in this fluid time we are living in?  So I had a costume designer friend of mine make me a green paisley suit with rhinestone buttons and wore very fancy shoes with a heel and a lot of eye make up on — and beads.

WHO’S THE INSPIRATION?
Kind of like Bruno Mars and Judy Garland at the Palace Theater.

AND THAT’S WHAT YOU’VE BEEN DOING?
Yes. Except Tom’s cats have killed my cabaret career.

WHAAA?
Tom has these two ancient cats who never liked me anyway — and he lives up the Hudson which is a big schlep. These cats are about 140 years old. Tom has to be home every day at 5PM to give one of the cats a shot for diabetes. He’d give me the cats’ room when I visited over night and I’d walk out of that door and these two black cats would be staring. It was — we’re really gonna fuck ‘im up now.

And they did.

Loss and Laurels

YOU HAD THIS HEART ATTACK. DID THAT CHANGE YOU IN ANY PROFOUND WAY?
It’s more than a heart attack, honey – I had an aortic aneurysm and I nearly died.

OMG.
And I have never been the same.

IN WHAT WAY?
My self-image. When I was a 7-year-old kid — we just had one death after the other. My mother, both my aunts lost their husbands, my grandparents, my dog died. Over and over.

Later, in therapy, I realized that we were depressed for all those years. Or maybe just I was. I was a sickly child but there was nothing wrong with me. I was never taken to a doctor. I was just sort of — fragile.

WHEN DID YOU COME OUT?
I never came out. I was just gay. But I became sexualized at 15, 16.

And suddenly the world became technicolor from black and white. And I felt great.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT TECHNICOLOR.
All of my Oliver Twist waif disappeared — and I was a cute boy in tight jeans, having a lot of sex right from the start.

I totally changed. I was invincible. I never did drugs or drank to excess because then I wouldn’t feel so great.

You know — you walk down the street and just breathe the air.

And then, at 47…

WHAT EXACTLY DID THEY DO TO YOUR BODY?
They had to cut me up — put a metal valve in, a Dacron graft, a bi-pass and all the sudden — I went right back to being that sickly kid.

I am just very careful now, and I was careless before in a wonderful way.

I find saying NO now very easy. And I don’t think that’s always a good thing.

HOW IS YOUR PHYSICAL CONDITION NOW
I’m totally artificial.

IF YOU COULD NAME A FEW SPECTACULAR HIGHLIGHTS IN YOUR LIFE – WHAT WOULD THEY BE? NAME THREE.
Maybe it’s a sad commentary but the highlights are all professional. Doesn’t everybody say — oh, my wedding day.

OR THE DAY I GAVE BIRTH…
1. Opening night of Vampire Lesbians of Sodomy. Cause I went from nothing to supporting myself. Overnight.

2. The opening night for The Lady in Question, 1989. Frank Rich in The New York Times — the last line was “That the lady in question is a man is beside the point. What matters is that the actor in question is a star.” Really emotional for me.

3. The opening night of The Allergist’s Wife on Broadway. I never thought I would have a Broadway hit. And that afternoon, I got a telegram and I thought — who the hell writes me a telegram. I opened it up and it said “Welcome to the big time! — Stephen Sondheim. WOW.

GOD, I AM CRYING.
Yeah. I guess I will leave it at that.

IT’S BEEN A TOUGH TIME FOR YOU. HOW ARE YOU DEALING WITH THE LOSS OF YOUR SISTER THIS YEAR?
I loved my sister more than anybody I’ve ever loved, and she was barely 3 years older than me. Once we became the same age — when I was 16 and she was 19 — we never had a single argument or moment of tension. We were bred to be devoted to each other.

WHAT WAS IT ABOUT HER?
She was a Peter Pan and Wendy kind of person — the most whimsical kooky person. Sometimes in theater you come across these “professional” kooky types. And I ain’t falling for it. I know the real deal — the real Sally Bowles, the real Holly Golightly. That was my sister. Yet, she was the most insightful person who really knew how human beings ticked. It’s that combination — why she’s Wendy and Peter Pan.

AND HOW ARE YOU NOW?
A part of me is missing. I can’t quite accept that she’s gone. 

So you got me crying. What are you — Barbara Walters?

LOSS. AGING…I AM SO SORRY.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT AGING?
I don’t care for it very much.

Charles is everywhere. Find the gorgeous memoir Leading Lady, A Memoir of a Most Unusual Boy on amazon, the mad cap comedy The Sixth Reel on Prime and coming up March 2, Ibsen’s Ghost, an Irresponsible Biographical Fantasy at 59E59 Theaters. Whew. You’ll find him on FB @charlesBusch, IG @chasbusch. The posts are brill by the by. What’d you expect?

Glorious Broad #27: World Famous *BOB*

ALL PHOTOS BY CHRISTOPHER SCALZI / DISTILLED STUDIOS

THE ONE AND ONLY WORLD FAMOUS …

MU/HAIR BY NICOLETTE GOLD / GOWN BY DAVID QUINN / WIG BY PERFIDIA

THE DRAG DIVA

THE ACTIVIST DRAG (Do note those shoes)

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Host, Activist for the Queer Community + Elders, Confidence Coach, Mother of the House of Famous

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Happy Pink Fun Fun — with a Dark, Chewy Center

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Trailblazing through Drag and Gender, Standing Up, Speaking Out — Taking Down the Patriarchy

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“I wake up each and every day — create and witness moments of beauty love and magic.”

— World Famous *BOB*

When I first heard their title — “Creator of FUN” — the World Famous *BOB* was working with SAGE — and I was editing a piece on LGBTQ elders for AARP.

I knew *BOB* as a mind-boggling downtown drag and burlesque performer in NYC — who used to call herself “The rock’n’roll tit clown.”

So. Ummm. How’d this re-start happen!?!!

So much has been written about *BOB* — their image, their gender, their performances — that I wanted to focus on this powerful human’s transitions — from Drag to Queer & Elder activist (hosting and burlesque along the way y’all) — taking down the patriarchy from the House of Famous in Austin, Texas …

LET’S START WITH THE BEGINNING. HOW DID YOU BECOME … YOU?
YOU LEFT HOME AT 16?
Fifteen and a half — from the boondocks of Paso Robles, California

SO: YOU LEFT THOSE SCRAPPY BEGINNINGS — MOVED TO THE EAST VILLAGE IN NYC, BECAME A PERFORMER/BURLESQUE/DRAG/PUNK STAR.

AND ON THE WAY, GOT YOUR HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA AT 40 — AT 50 WORKING ON YOUR MASTERS — AND AN ACTIVIST THROUGHOUT … WHILE PERFORMING, HOSTESSING AND WORKING WITH LGBTQ ELDER COMMUNITY. I’M EXHAUSTED WRITING THIS.
Hold on. Gotta take that down a notch. At 50 I received my Associate degree in gerontological studies — no masters — but the rest’s right on. (Laughs)

WHAT'S NEXT FOR YOU?
Creating spaces where we can discuss end of life issues, chip away at the discomfort around death. And rebrand aging while we’re at it.

WELL THAT’S HUGE!

HOW DID YOU COME TO THIS POSITIVE PLACE IN YOUR LIFE?
Positivity keeps me going. Love and courage. My chosen people reflect who I want to be when I grow up, if I ever to do that.

*BOB* — Inside and Out

AND WHERE DID YOU GET THIS DRIVE?
I'm like the candy Good and Plenty: The exterior is bright and colorful. And then the interior — a shadow self if you will —  it’s dark and rich and thicker. I’m learning to work with that part of myself, instead of fearing it and not letting it run the whole show.

WHEN DID YOU COME TO THIS SELF AWARENESS?
When I was younger — maybe 13 to 25 — I had a lot of problems with addiction and alcohol. When I got sober, I was able to thicken up that candy shell.

BUT IT’S THE HAPPY YOU DISPLAY FULL ON!
(Laughs) Nobody has this big display of color if they are not fighting equally large demons. This is my antidepressant. The colors in my home and the colors I wear. It’s over the top … and the energy I want to emit.

AND WHEN THIS DOESN’T WORK? I MEAN — YOU ARE HUMAN.
I will just shut it all down. Go on strike. That’s a place of privilege. I realize that. But I had never had it before.

“Nobody has this big display of color – if they are not fighting equally large demons. This is my antidepressant. The colors in my home and the colors I wear. It’s over the top… and the energy I want to emit.”

DID YOU REALIZE THIS AFTER YOU GOT SOBER?
I did. Everything I tried to drink or drug away — every dilemma, trauma, emotion — went into a waiting room, sat there, holding up its number. And when I got sober that door opened: “Are you ready for us now?” So I am careful not to send things to that waiting room. Unless I absolutely need to.

DO YOU HAVE A MANTRA?
I have a mission statement that I wrote years ago — different from a mantra. Here’s it is:
“I wake up each and every day, create and witness moments of beauty love and magic.” 

I LOVE THAT.

Artivist

DO YOU VIEW YOURSELF AS AN ARTIST FIRST — OR ACTIVIST FIRST?
You cannot separate them.

EXPLAIN PLEASE.
Like the motto — “not about us without us.” I am careful to not step in front of people I want to support.

For example: The queer communities. I would be an ally and less of a “I’m gonna take up space” in the queer persons of color community — ‘cause that doesn’t apply to me. So it is finding my artist and advocate self, how and where to apply it.

GIVE ME ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF YOUR ART AND ACTIVISM.
Every time I have been naked on stage — it’s been a political statement. And it’s art.

WHY?
‘Cause I have a body that isn’t mainstream ideal — and assigned ideals tend to unravel when I get on stage naked.

WERE YOU EVER SCARED UP THERE?
I’m scared all the time. Everybody’s fears are different — and everybody has fear. But I have a courage reference.

OOOOO. WHAT’S A COURAGE REFERENCE?
Every time you take a step — a little bit bigger than you are comfortable with — that is a courage reference. One step at a time, not attached to results.

GIVE ME SOME EXAMPLES IN YOUR LIFE.
In my mid 20s I didn’t love singing — but I was so scared that I knew I had to do it.

So I started voice lessons. After 8 months, I sang with a queer band that really intimidated me — and had a great time. Now I still don’t love singing (laughs) — but I did it.

And at 13, I wrote my first book “A Mere Thought.” I thought I had a book in me then. Now, at 50, to write my own story seems really scary. I lack discipline. Whenever I have this much resistance, it is exactly what I am supposed to do. I know that.

WRITE IT. ‘CAUSE IT WOULD MAKE A GREAT MOVIE, I CAN TELL YOU THAT.

Bring on the Burlesque

YOU ARE OLDER FOR A BURLESQUE STAR — IS  IT HARDER TO GET JOBS?
I stopped dancing 10 years ago and became an exclusive MC. So I took the reins on that one.

GOOOO!
One of the main reasons I did that was — not because of age, but because I got sick — Hashimoto’s disease. It was hard to be in my body and really hard to dance. I was a performance artist for 31 years — I always thought the moment it didn’t feel like the stage was the only place to be — I will stop. Living with chronic illness I shifted gears. And that was terrifying.  

SO HOW’D YOU PRESENT THAT SWITCH?
I called my friend Kate Valentine one of the best performers in the world — somebody I learned so much from and said: “How do I tell somebody that I only host now.” Her response?  “Not like that. Tell them: I exclusively host now.”  

“Every time I have been naked on stage — it’s been a political statement. And it’s art.”

PERFECT
You need people around you that can reframe. That’s key.

AND THEN YOU GET TO MERGE ALL THESE TALENTS WITH THE LIVING LEGENDS BALL …
Oh … my Temple. I get to go out on stage and bathe in their gloriousness

TELL US
It’s a 4 day Las Vegas extravaganza now known as the Burlesque Hall of Fame Weekend. It started as an annual gathering of burlesque stars — a reunion — and now …

I have been introducing these Legends over the past 16 years.

I got to bring out Jean Idelle, 92 years old — they called her “a sepia toned Sally Rand.”

Trail-blazer. When she was on the scene, the black musicians would have to play behind the curtain. But she has such a draw — the clubs would book her — and she negotiated that curtain to be dropped. She used her body and her power to integrate spaces.

TALK ABOUT POLITICAL ART!

WHAT ARE THE VIBES AT THE EVENT?
I always start that show by saying if you don’t have a lump in your throat or a tear in your eye by the end of tonight — you’re dead inside. (Laughs)

New York Dolls

WHAT WERE YOUR EARLY DAYS ON STAGE LIKE?
I’ll tell you about one of my favorite acts: It was New York in the 90s. Another fabulous gay bar. I’d come out with an exercise mat, two bags of McDonald’s cheeseburgers in an American flag bikini. I’d put down the mat — throw the cheeseburgers out to the crowd and take off my bikini while AC/DC’s “You Shook Me All Night Long” blasted away. People were just: Who’s this crazy person ­— this huge blonde wig with the painted-on eyebrows — topless aerobics with J cups? I called myself a rock’n’roll tit clown.

That’s almost burlesque — making fun of something. And it’s also political.

WHEN’S IT GET TO BE REAL BURLESQUE?
I thought — I’m gonna do a blonde bombshell Marilyn number. My drag mom Jackie Beat said: “You should mix a drink in your tits – they’re big enough.”

But what if I made it more classy — Marilyn Monroe mixing a martini in her cleavage and pouring it — with no hands. Pulling an olive out of her panties.

So I created this show  “Martini Time” — and it was a smash.

During the day I had black hair shaved into a widow’s peak — like that good and plenty center — and at night, I’d be Marilyn.

A guy in the audience said: “I love your burlesque.” I never heard the word before. He was bitchy and funny and said — “Go the library and look it up.” I did. And fell in love.

“I used to call myself the rock’n’roll tit clown.”

— World Famous *BOB*

THESE CHARACTERS YOU DEVELOP — THEY ARE YOUR STORY TELLING.
They are. I developed over 21 drag characters. I would sketch them in a book, name them, catch phrases, and started this at 15. No Ru Paul Drag Race out there. And I didn’t have a drag mother. Or a drag bar.

When Gender is a Drag for a Drag

HOW DID YOUR GENDER IDENTITY FACTOR INTO YOUR WORK?
Everyone said — you can’t do drag because you’re a girl and I will state clearly right now — that I am non-binary. I don’t identify as a woman or a man. My pronouns are she/him/they.

But we didn’t have that language, we didn’t have those words

TRAILBLAZER!
At 15, I thought I was trans. I thought I needed trans-sexual surgery … which is an antiquated thought but — I didn’t know. I felt like a tourist in my body. Being a girl was — a scratchy wool sweater hand-me-down that didn’t fit. And didn’t feel good.

So off to San Francisco I went — in the 80s — when I was 21 — brought a box of thrift store drag I put together — a couple of wigs, crazy girdles, torpedo bras — very John Waters — and got a job at The Stud. Perfect.

But …

Early ‘90s San Francisco.

WHAT’S THE “BUT” ABOUT …
To be accepted. The people close to me knew I was assigned female at birth. During the day I wore men’s clothes, underwear, all male. At night — I was a drag persona. But somebody who knew my assigned gender sprayed my crotch with a can of Lysol when I walked into the club and …

THAT’S VIOLENCE …
There were pockets of extreme. Look —some didn’t know and some did. For a small handful of people, they felt I was cheating. Saying things like — oh, you are “Victor/Victoria.” And when I finally saw the movie, it was really helpful. ‘Cause I said no — not me. Victor/Victoria was excited to go home and be a woman. I am not.  

All Hail the Elderselder Love

AND HERE YOU ARE NOW. NON-BINARY. 10 YEAR MARRIAGE TO A BIG BEAR OF A HUSBAND — WORKING WITH LGBTQ ELDERS.
Oh yeah. I am art directing the entrance into my elder queen self. (Laughs)

I have started my caftan collection.

I HEARD A PODCAST WITH YOU AND DIRTY MARTINI — AND DIXIE EVANS CAME UP. A LOT.
Dixie Evans is my burlesque mother.

And I have 4 more moms.

“I am art directing the entrance into my elder Queen self.”

WHA? ONE MOM WAS PLENTY FOR ME...
Dixie created community and legacy. She ran the Exotic World of Burlesque Museum through the '70s and '80s — when people were not interested in burlesque. She guarded that little flame. And later, we could all light our fires from it.  She was not the gatekeeper. It wasn’t her legacy. It was yours.  

AND THE 4 OTHERS MOMS?
So... Dixie Evans — my burlesque mother.
Jackie Beat — my drag mother.  
Flo — my husband’s mom — the pretty blonde lady I used to dream about having for a mom.
Maria from Greenpoint — my Brooklyn Italian mother.
Dottie — my 99 year-old bestie.

DO YOU HAVE AN OLD SOUL? IS THAT YOUR CONNECTION TO ELDERS?
No. I am a child. Looking for examples.

HOW DID YOU DECIDE TO GET MARRIED?
I was looking for a partner in a relationship. So I started online dating. 10 minutes a day. I had a whole formula.

AN ONLINE DATING FORMULA. DO TELL.
Here’s my system. I wore the same thing and met at the same place for every first date. I was in charge. But I got sick of bowling in that leopard dress. I met my husband, Erik at a Kenneth Anger film and it was the best date.

At one point I thought maybe Erik and I should just be friends. And decided to live my life according to the next Celestial Seasonings tea bag — whatever it says — that’s what I’m gonna do. It said  “A relationship not built upon friendship first is like a mansion built upon the sand.” So I called him and asked him out on another date.

YOU LIKED HIM!
Yes. And I was used to holding sparklers! How shiny and bright! But they don’t last long. You get burnt. I thought, what about this beautiful candle — if I put my arm around it — I could see for years down the road.

AND YOU CHOSE TO LEAVE NYC ….
Yeah! Before I got bitter. And I was craving a real home.

WHY TEXAS?
It’s Erik’s family. His sister, my niblings, and Flo. It was: Hey lets figure out where we all want to go. I never had that type of family before.

We researched places and — Austin.  Group decision. And in time, I actually have 4 of my 7 drag children here with me. I am so proud of them!

DO YOU HAVE A TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE?
Its monogamous. So that is traditional. I am gender queer. Sometimes people are like — is Erik? No Erik is cis gendered male. He is heterosexual. He is white.

BUT HE IS A SEXY BEAR AS YOU CALL HIM
I made it very clear early on about my gender. He was raised in a feminist household and so.

YOU ARE VERY MUCH A GLORIOUS BROAD.
HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE THE WORD GLORIOUS?
It’s a verb — radiating. That is the cool thing about this project — no box that people get shoved into as a Glorious Broad.

I ADORE YOU.

Your serotonin levels will thank you for checking out theworldfamousbob.com and World Famous BOB IG @worldfamousbob

Glorious Broad #26: Juana Cala

ALL PHOTOS BY CHRISTOPHER SCALZI/DISTILLED STUDIO

Juana in all her Gloriousness

Clap. ClapClapClapClapClap!

Si. SiSiSiSiSi!

HAIR/MU: NATALIA THOMAS

“Street wear” can NOT contain this …

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Flamenco Bailaora y Coreógrafa — ¡Ole!

GLORIOUS PERSONA: A Flamenco Power House Who Never, Ever Thinks About Her Age

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Born Leader, Reinvention Queen, Truth Teller

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“Every time I dance I celebrate my body with the same kind of love that you can feel — it’s not an actual orgasm — but it’s very close. ”

I strolled into the tablao — expecting a good show, sure. But. Juana was something else. That heat. That confidence. That — oh just you wait and see …

She tore down the house.And Juana Cala stomped her way — guitars, percussion, palmas aside, into my Glorious imagination.

I had to know — who is this Spanish Queen? Turns out: She's a Broad from Long Island who has traveled the world only to end right back in her hometown. This strong willed girl became both a renowned choreographer and star dancer — then she renounced diva-hood (oooo that’s hard) to return to NYC. Just when you think she can't get cooler: these days she's using flamenco to connect with kids with autism. And it all began out on Long Guyland -- check out Juana's story....

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THIS SENSATION ROSALIA? LOVED WHEN SHE APPEARED ON SNL AND STOLE THE SHOW!
If someone like Rosalia comes along — even if they look a little pseudo — who cares!? They are bringing flamenco to a wider audience — a younger audience — and that’s what matters.

YOU DON’T FEEL PROTECTIVE ABOUT THE PURITY OF THE ART FORM?
Hell no! Flamenco is a niche art. And when someone young and cool comes along — and everybody who isn’t in our world sees her and says “You know — that is really Spanish-ey” (laughs) and they start talkin flamenco, they’re coming to your gigs and sending their daughter to your dance class. Yes! We can survive — we may even thrive for a few years on this trend!

WHAT ABOUT HER MUSIC? YOU LIKE?
I love her. She’s a little quirky — a little freaky — her take on the white veil — it’s close enough! She’s smart and she updates it. And far from the first — remember Madonna?

WORSHIP. WHO INSPIRED YOU BACK IN THE DAY?
Joaquin Cortes changed the game. He launched shirtless and sexy for his ‘92 world tour — put a classy element to it — a new twist. And he had a thing with Naomi Campbell by the by. It was a huge jump for Flamenco in this country. Before that, they mostly called it FlamenGO. (laughs)

WHAT PULLED YOU TOWARD FLAMENCO?
I really got into it fast. I could do the turns and the jumps ‘cause I had that footing from ballet. But I was so taken by the flamenco singing — a cassette was given to me for my first solo performance. I was in my parent’s bathroom when I heard it — and vowed: I will never do ANYTHING but flamenco.

A LITTLE SCARLETT O’HARA …

DID YOU HAVE A GOOD MENTOR?
There were two — both 10 years older than me and once I made it clear that this was what I wanted to do — they were like — ok — you better get on it. Off to Madrid for 4 months — where to get the good shoes — where to buy a costume — so I was very coddled.

HOW OLD WERE YOU?
22

WAS THE DECISION AT ALL PRACTICAL – THERE IS MORE LONGEVITY AS A DANCER IN FLAMENCO THAN BALLET, NO?
Not practical. It was my calling. But I will say — with ballet — age 28 — you’re done. You’re lucky if you don’t get injured. With flamenco — you can dance until you can’t walk any more.

“I love Rosalia. She’s a little quirky — a little freaky. Her take on the white veil? It’s close enough. She’s smart and she updates it. And far from the first — remember Madonna?”

WHEN DID YOU FIRST THINK YOU WANTED TO DANCE?
My whole life.

BUT LET’S GET A LITTLE DEEPER ABOUT FLAMENCO. WHAT PULLED YOU IN? YOU’RE A NEW YAWKUH!
I’ll tell you: When I was younger — I had a very conflictual relationship with authority — and so did the Spanish Gypsies — now known as the Romani — made to feel they did not even have the same rights as regular Spaniards. Now I don’t claim to be Romani. But I could identify with them. I knew I had a strong voice inside me — and flamenco allowed me to speak with that voice.

SO IT WAS MAINLY ABOUT THUMBING YOUR NOSE...?
For me — what I loved — this is not something that you just reach a certain level and you’re good to go. This is something that you’re going to have to always work at. A challenge. Forever. That really appealed to me. 

DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A TRADITIONAL FLAMENCO DANCER?
I dance in traditional and I dance more modern when the syncopations change — it’s like jazz drumming. A great jazz drummer today — he doesn’t sound like Buddy Rich — though Buddy Rich was great. Its chops — it’s all about chops.

LET’S TALK ABOUT THE ROMANI DANCERS, WHAT WE USED TO CALL “GYPSY”. WHY DO I FEEL THAT THEY ARE THE MOST AUTHENTIC DANCERS? IS THAT MYTH? OR REALITY?
The two styles have always been very separate. It is not that the Romani dance any better — it is just a different style.

LIKE?
They learn through family. The mother sings — the aunt dances — the uncle plays guitar — the showmanship — the wow factor — is solidly there. They’re all hard-core dancers.

The others go to an academy. They learn to become “Professionals”

“With Ballet: Age 28. You’re done. With flamenco? You can dance until you can’t walk any more. ”

DID YOU HAVE ONE DANCING MUSE?
I had a few. But my muses were usually men. 

Gender Bending Flamenco

WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MALE AND FEMALE DANCERS. TO ME, FEMALES LOOK MORE REACTIVE — AND MALES MORE AGGRESSIVE. IS THAT TOO PAT?
That may be the dancer’s personality — or how they feel that moment. Flamenco is so deeply related to who you are — to what you are living and going through. There is no right or wrong.

INTERESTING. UNDERSTAND — THERE IS A YOUNG FLAMENCO MAN I LOVE AND HE IS QUITE MACHO SO I ASSUMED IT WAS GENDER BASED.
It has always been gender fluid. Always.

There are women who dance much more like a man than I do. I keep both in my dance in every style. There will be moments when I will be more introverted and use my hips and hands — but I don’t think I am being more of a female or more of a man. I’m being me — in that moment.  

I THINK I TOLD YOU THAT I WORKED A LOT IN SPAIN – AND I SAW THE MACHO-NESS IN THAT SOCIETY. BUT THAT IS NOT INCORPORATED INTO THIS DANCE YOU ARE SAYING. SO INTERESTING.
Well, women rule the roost in the dance world.

WHY DO OLDER FLAMENCO DANCERS LAST SO LONG? TO ME — IT LOOKS SO TOUGH ON THE HIPS AND FEET.
I think it is because it is a very earth-bound form of dance. The movements are in a natural realm. I mean — you put your leg over your head in ballet. That’s not natural. You're gonna get injured. And flamenco dancers don’t jump. It is the jumping that’s hard on the hips and the knees. But, I can assure you, no dancer has pretty feet (laughs) …  

SO — WHY CHOREOGRAPHY? WHEN DID THAT APPEAL TO YOU?
Oh please — when I was 5 years old. The entire track of Lara’s theme from Dr. Zhivago. I choreographed and danced the whole thing for my poor parents. Under the tables, over the couch …

AN ARTIST IS BORN.

WERE YOU THE ONLY GIRL IN YOUR FAMILY?
Yes. I’m the oldest and the only girl. So I’m a born leader.

AND MARIAH CAREY SHAPED YOUR LIFE PATH?? — TELL US EVERYTHING ...
She did! I was on hiatus and supposed to go back on tour, living with my boyfriend — and took a job at the cosmetic counter at Macys. I was already fed up with that job — feeling off my path — getting worried, scared — is this all there is? When Mariah walks in.

WAS SHE ALREADY A STAR?
She was a budding singer at this time — and a friend of the guy who ran the Macy’s counter. Frank. I will never forget his name because I am forever grateful to Frank. Mariah wants to learn how to do her makeup. I was 27 and she about 19. And — I remember it so clearly — I am doing her face and she was positively lit up – oozing with joy and hope about her future — and I said to myself — that’s what you’re supposed to do — feel that way — you have to go after it. Nothing is gonna come to you at this makeup counter, girl. So I quit. I packed my bags. And I went to Europe.

GOD I LOVE THAT STORY …

“Women rule the roost in the dance world.”

TELL US THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN FLAMENCO AND SEX. IT LOOKS SO HOOOOOTTTTT …

Well, you have to get down lower — very open — you move your hips a lot. Every time I dance I celebrate my body with the same kind of love that you can feel — it’s not an actual orgasm — but it’s very close.   

WOULD YOU SAY YOU ARE A FEMINIST?
Very much so.

WHY SO?
I got to see my mother metamorphosize. My parents separated when I was 12 — and she was a stay-at-home mom. She fell a part — and I took over as head of the household. But then: She got it together. Made it on her own. With three kids! That was the green light for me that — yeah — you can try to do whatever you want to do in your life.

The Leader of the Pack

THAT’S A LOT FOR A KID. WERE THERE OTHER LESSONS IN THERE?
I will not be told what to do by a man. I love them. But I never feel like I need a man. Ever.

Meanwhile, my parents got back together after 13 years. Happily until the very end.  

“Right now is my favorite time — but you know what? I remember saying that 10 years ago.”

DID YOU DREAM AT 14 YOU WOULD BE THE GLORIOUS BROAD THAT YOU ARE TODAY?
I think I was already telling myself: You better damn well be.

ANY DESIRE TO BE 20 AGAIN?
You know I really don’t — I wouldn’t mind being 45 again. (Laughs.)  

WHAT IS SUCCESS TO YOU NOW?
Feeling good about myself. After a performance. I'm loving the jazz singing I’m doing now.

I already had a case of fame in Italy — and made a conscious decision to walk away …

HOLD ON. YOU DIDN'T LIKE BEING FAMOUS AND SUCCESSFUL?
I didn’t like who I was any more. That was one reason I started singing again instead of the dance and choreography I was known for. I purposely set out to humble myself.

BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE ADULATING YOU? 
Yes, I was in a position where — I was signing autographs all the time. And, trust me, it goes to your head.

HOW DID YOU REALIZE THIS?
You know what it was? The fear of losing it. You go through a phase of — what did I do to get here — but how do I keep it going? What’s it going to be like if it stops. And so — because of the character I have — I like to get out before somebody does it to me. So I did it to myself. I said no. Self-humbling time.

TALK ABOUT A DO-OVER …
I became a total Diva. But never a bitchy Diva. (laughs)

TELL US MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU WERE DOING IN ITALY … WHAT MADE YOU A BIG DEAL?

I first went to Spain and worked at least 6 nights a week as a dancer and choreographer — then worked for an agency in Rome where I founded my own company. Things really took off — working in the best theaters all over Italy for the next 18 years.

The agent would call me. Here is the budget. You can bring 7 or 8 artists from Spain. I’d bring in the best. “Come on tour with me.” Years and years of that. The artistry. The costumes. The choreography. I was the center point. I was very very lucky.

Starting Over

WERE YOU HOMESICK?
Not homesick but — my parents were aging and I had been in Europe nearly 20 years.

I was visiting shortly after Christmas and had the ticket to go back to Italy. I just never got on the plane. My father was about to take me to the airport — my bags were packed — and he said: “Ok, are you ready?” And I said: “You know what dad. I’m not going”. And he just unzipped his coat and said: “That’s fine with me.” (Laughs)

And we had dinner together — and all was well.

SO HOW DID YOU RESTART IN NEW YORK?
I got my ass kicked in the beginning. And I thought — this is ok. This is good for you. And another whole chapter began.

I wanted to give back in some way. And was very curious to see what it would be like work with autism kids and flamenco movements. And that’s what happened.

HOW?
I got an opportunity. And now dedicate some of my time working in NYC’s public schools for special needs students. I’ve created my own strategies using flamenco technique through FlamencoVivo’s Arts and Education Program. We work together all over the city — conferences, classes …

GIRRLLLL!

WHAT’S NEXT FOR YOU?
Suddenly I feel I may want to go back to just thinking of myself as a dancer again. Rather than being so altruistic. A little bit more time exploring myself.

ANOTHER CHAPTER.
My third.

SO DO YOU FEEL FREER AS YOU GET OLDER?
I am free of the trappings I put on myself. That was part of the metamorphosis.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY WAS YOUR FAVORITE TIME IN YOUR LIFE?
Right now is my favorite time — but you know what? I remember saying that 10 years ago. (Laughs)

DO YOU FEEL THAT YOU ARE THE SAME PERSON THAT YOU WERE AT 30, 40, 50 — THAT YOUR CORE IS THE SAME?
Yes I do. I recognize more parts of me that I wasn’t seeing back then.

WELL, YOU ARE AN OFFICIAL GLORIOUS BROAD. SO WHAT DOES GLORIOUS MEAN TO YOU?
Feeling free to be yourself —.accepting others celebrating you sometimes ... and celebrating yourself with them!

HOW ABOUT THE WORD BROAD?
Love it. Also, I am a big Frank Sinatra fan. So rat packy — Glorious Broads.

Seeing Juana is believing Juana. Go get yourself transformed why don’t ya. The Queen is on IG @juanacalaflamenco and FB @juanacala

Glorious Broad #25: Jodie Patterson

PHOTOS BY CHRISTOPHER SCALZI / DISTILLED STUDIO

Move over, Ann Reinking … rockin those fishnets

Cut arms. And style baby …

HAIR: LIZ LOVES HAIR / MU: ANGIE PARKER BEAUTY

Did we mention she was an acrobat? For the Big Apple? Answering texts from kids on shoot … in this position … I mean …

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Author, Activist, Mother

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Font of Wisdom and Guts — with Oodles of Style

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Reflective, Tough, Soft, Tenacious

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“In a time of destruction. Build something. Mother something — until it is whole.”

— Jodie Patterson

Kindred. That’s how I felt about Jodie Patterson, my ardor growing with every click on her Insta. Our outsides may not match — I’m a white lady 20 years her senior after all — but our sensibilities are bestie soulmates: We share the outlook that family is so much more than “blood.” We share deep lovmiration for her mentor and my queen, Bethann Hardison. We both worship Tilda Swinton. By the time I put together that Jodie’s uncle  is Gil Scott Heron… who SHAPED my existence in art school having a mini-hippie moment with The Revolution Will Not Be Televised … that did it. I had to meet this Glorious Broad. And Jodie does not disappoint. When you pitch an activist to photograph her Bob Fosse style — and she runs with it?  That’s smokin’ — and my kind of hot mama! Jodie was an entrepreneur who thrived in beauty, entertainment and fashion only to have her whole world shift when her child Penelope said, at the age of three, THREE — he was not a girl. He was a boy. Jodie documents this journey in her own book, The Bold World and continues to advocate for LGBTQIA rights as chair of the Human Rights Campaign. So get your wisdom cups ready, Jodie Patterson is a font of excellent ideas …

SO, I’VE BEEN DEEP IN YOUR IG FOR A WHILE — AND I PICKED A COUPLE OF YOUR QUOTES THAT SHOW THE MANY SIDES OF JODIE. YOU’RE SO DAMN QUOTABLE:

“Cut arms are my entire freakin attitude”

“The best conversations are the ones about the thing you just can’t get out of your head”

“Untethering is not something women are taught”

“Take selfies and send them to yourself”

“I have that feeling when we walk into a room as a queer black family, I used to think — it’s hard to live this life. And now, it’s so great. Nobody knows what we know as a queer family”

ALL OF THAT IS YOU, JODIE …
You’re absolutely right — Kudos!

That whole idea of “take selfies of yourself and send them back to you” — If you go back and look at your journals or look in a mirror — and you take a selfie and send it to yourself — you are reminded of you. We see celebrities all the time. But — what about gazing at yourself?

I LOVE THAT IDEA. OR EVEN, WHEN I FIND A JOURNAL FROM A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO I THINK — OH — THIS IS BEAUTIFULLY WRITTEN — OR SOMETIMES NOT. (WE LAUGH)

DID YOU DREAM WHEN YOU WERE A TEEN THAT YOU’D BE THE GLORIOUS BROAD THAT YOU ARE TODAY?
From as young as I can remember — like 6-years-old — I really wanted to be three things: A mother. A teacher. And a businesswoman.

BUT IN A SHARP SUIT.
A Donna Karan suit — with big shoulders! (laughs.) I just knew I wanted to be important.  

YOU’VE COME FROM A FAMILY OF LEADERS. YOUR DAD STARTED THE FIRST BLACK BROKERAGE FIRM ON WALL STREET, AND I AM GOING TO MENTION GIL SCOT-HERON AGAIN. DID YOU FEEL DESTINED TO BE ONE?
(Sighs) That’s heavy. But yeah. There is an entrepreneurial drive in my family. An activist drive. My uncle Gil Scott Heron was building ideas: The revolution will not be televised. It will happen live and direct.

MY HERO … AND A REAL POET
Yes. My career started as a junior book editor. I was thinking about my family and watching other people — like Russell Simmons and my soon to be husband — they were all entrepreneurs. And I thought: God I want to do more than just sit at this desk. The default in my family was being a changemaker.

WELL, YOU ARE THAT…

Beauty With a Capital “B”

BUT SPEAKING OF CHANGE, TELL US HOW YOU NAVIGATED STARTING A BEAUTY COMPANY IN A WORLD SO DANGEROUS FOR AGING WOMEN. HOW DID YOU SHIFT FROM BEAUTY TO ACTIVISM? THAT’S HUGE.
About 10 years ago I decided to open an online company, Doobop — all about inner and outer beauty for women with textured hair and brown skin.

I do not shop on the bottom shelf for my beauty products. At that time, the ethnic isles were dusty — sad — and super bottom shelf. Not updated since the ‘60s.

So we updated. We went past ethnic boundaries — and picked products based on the ingredients best for women of color.

We addressed both how women feel — and her access to self-care. Beauty can be superficial but the way I approached it was outside and inside.  

“I was in the beauty industry — and raising a trans kid — thinking — these two worlds might contradict. How can I be in this industry and be proud?”

WELL, SELFCARE IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM ANTI-AGING. IT’S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW.
Right? And we are so hyper-focused on youth. What I started to feel — being in the beauty industry and raising a trans kid — these two worlds don’t go together. The beauty industry says: There is one form of beauty. One look. And at home I was asking my kids to be brave and present however they felt most true to themselves.

So maybe Beauty is with a capital B — from the inside out. I am wearing an afro today because I am challenging my boys’ curly hair — we’re having an afro contest. (laughs) 

And?? Who’s winning??
We don’t know yet — it’s who can get the biggest afro by Easter. Hair can be so political and emotional. In my home, it’s just love. And that’s my approach to Beauty.

YOU ARE NOT SEEING ME AT MY BEST TODAY — BUT I CAN GET DONE. I ENJOY THAT. AND IT’S MOSTLY MY YOUNGER FRIENDS FREAKING OUT AS THEY TURN 40. I AM 70. YOU KNOW WHAT? THIS ROCKS.
It does?

IT DOES. MOST DAYS. (LAUGHS) BUT I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR TURNING 50 – LOOKING AND FEELING GOOD AND HEALTHY. YOU MAY ALREADY KNOW THIS — BUT WITH EACH YEAR YOU HAVE TO PUT MORE AND MORE TIME INTO SELF-CARE …
(Laughs) Completely! I used to spend maybe 30 minutes at the max in the bathroom, and then anything else is wasting your day. And now I am like: Oh I need more time — more time to slowly get out of bed. More bathroom time. If I rush through those practices I really need — I feel and I look it the whole day.

I FOLLOW A WOMAN NAMED YAMUNA. AND I BREATHE WITH HER EACH MORNING. AND THAT TAKES A HALF HOUR OUT OF MY DAY. BUT I NO LONGER THINK OF IT THAT WAY. INSTEAD, IT MAKES MY DAY.  BUT THAT SHIFT TOOK TIME.

SO SPEAKING OF AGE AND BEAUTY — HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT TURNING 50?
I always wanted to be older. So when I was 49 I was saying 50. This year I think I was saying 52, and my friends were saying no, you are only 51. 50 was so “hot damn.” And 51 was “oh fuck.” (laughs)

YOU KNOW I HAVE TO ASK WHY …
It’s been hard for me to embrace loss. Like hair. Muscle tone. Intellectually I can accept my body. But — I don’t like loss.

JUST WAIT … (WE LAUGH)

WELL, YOU INSPIRED ME THE OTHER DAY WOMAN. I’VE BEEN WALKING REALLY FAST LATELY — BUT IT’S AFFECTING MY HIP. IT WAS ONE OF THOSE NASTY COLD DAYS AND THERE YOU WERE IN YOUR COOL LOOKING JOG SUIT AFTER A RUN. SO I NEED TO DO MORE. BUT… I NEED TO WALK SLOWER.
Exactly. Cause I am not sure that more means faster. But. I give more thought to my exercise now. And I think the urgency as we get older is not in speed. But in depth.

YES. I AGREE. BUT HEY — I DO SLIP UP …
I have added breathing exercises like you. And the slower yoga moves. I actually notice if I missed those days — it changes my face and my butt (we laugh)

WHAT KIND OF YOGA? TO BE AS FLEXIBLE AS YOU. I JUST PHOTOGRAPHED YOU AND …. WOE
My exercise changes. For many years I was running every day, then stretching and doing body weights. An hour about 4 times a week. And now I am doing 5 to 7 days of yoga, breathing, body weights, stretching …. like two hours of that. So yes. More each decade.

Love With (Lotsa) Possibilities

WOW. AS I MENTIONED, I LOVE YOUR INSTA — SO TRANSPARENT. AND FUN. AND SERIOUS.

AND I SEE YOU ALWAYS HAVE A LOVE LIFE GOING. I HAVE NO PATIENCE WHEN PEOPLE SAY THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIND LOVERS — THEY’RE OUT THERE!
Totally. Thanks for noticing. I spend a lot of time and energy on the things that I care about. Including my love life and sex life. When I started to become part of the LGBT community, it shocked me that I hadn’t previously considered millions of people in my options.

“I spend a lot of time and energy on the things that I care about. Including my love life and sex life. ”

OHHHHH. YOU MEAN AS A STRAIGHT WOMAN?
Yeah. I never even thought outside of a cis gender perspective.

SO HOW HAS DATING CHANGED FOR YOU?
Well, now I am open to all identities. I find myself looking more for values — more for the core of the person.

A NEW LIFE …
When you widen your view you start to find connections in so many ways.

YES. AND I THINK THAT DOES HAPPEN AROUND 50. FOR ME, WHEN MY EX AND I BROKE UP — THERE WAS A WOMAN I HAD A CRUSH ON THAT I SHIED AWAY FROM. AND I FINALLY MADE THE PITCH. WE HAD A FIERY LOVE LIFE FOR ABOUT A YEAR. I NEVER CONSIDERED MYSELF BISEXUAL OR QUEER. I JUST I LET IT IN …
I can totally relate to that. The language can feel too specific, too limiting for me. My friends asked: Wait, are you gay now Jodie? First of all, they didn't understand that trans is not a sexual preference. It's an identity. And trans has nothing to do with me being straight or gay. But the point that they're asking was: Are you different now?

SO WERE YOU?
(Laughs) I was thinking: I am me. And this piece of me has been activated.

WHO’D HAVE THUNK IT.

Mother Builder

SO HAS YOUR VIEW OF MOTHERHOOD CHANGED AS YOU'VE GROWN OLDER?
Yes, definitely. When you’re a mother of young children, much of your time is in the minutiae. In the last several years, I started rethinking mothering — because this phase is different.

It’s less soothing and coddling — more building.

You can build a child, a community, a boardroom, an idea. This has nothing to do with birthing. You don't have to own a vagina. You just have to want to build someone up.

SO, WHAT IS FAMILY TO YOU? I MEAN, I'M A PEDRO ALMODOVAR FAN. BUT IS FAMILY A COMBINATION BLOOD AND CHOSEN?
I think those who dwell together in physicality or in a mental space, is family. Period.

I LOVE THAT.

Chosen family is just as strong as blood family.

DOUBLE PERIOD.
I have a work husband on the board with me at the Human Rights Campaign, and that relationship is family. He's a gay white man, living in Texas. I'm a straight black woman living in New York. When we're talking about diversity or racism, we speak together. We love each other. And so that's family. We've never lived in the same house, but we dwell together.

WHAT DOES AMBITION MEAN TO YOU NOW? THE SAME THING AS 30 YEARS AGO?
I don't know if I use that word anymore. I was ambitious in my 20’s and 30’s. There was a longing for … something. Career, but also romantically. Even in my late 30’s and 40’s. I wanted to be bigger in this world. Know more.

WHAT CHANGED?
Today I have goals. Projects. A lot of dedication to work and family, but I don't have ambitions. It doesn't mean I don't have passion. It means I don't crave something I don't have right now.

“You can build a child, a community, a boardroom, an idea. This has nothing to do with birthing. You don’t have to own a vagina. ”

AND YOU SEEM TO BE A — I'M CAREFUL WITH THIS WORD SPIRITUAL — BUT YOU SEEM TO BE VERY CENTERED.
Oh I can put myself into a tizzy! In the past: I’d spin with my drive. I used to run for hours, and at the end of the block, I’d envision my book cover, the next block — I would run towards the completion of my book and then the next block it would be a review. In the NY Times. (laughs)

THAT SPECIFIC …
I don't have that in me anymore. As I get older I feel accomplished and loved. The five children, the two husbands, the books and the experiences have made me understand that things come to you in life.

BUT YOU STILL HAVE A LOT GOING ON …
Yes but. If I were to work on this book proposal for another two years, I would be okay with that. Three, five years ago, I wanted it now. And I’m gonna strive. I'm going to do it and every day I'm going to run two hours and work five hours. And accomplish these goals no matter what it took.

YEAH, THAT’S A BIG SHIFT.
If this 50-year-old continued at that speed, I'd be burnt out. Or worse.

BUT I SEE THERE'S A LOT OF SELF-CARE IN YOUR DAY.
Now there is. A lot of quiet time. And a lot of the work is invisible work. Reading in my bed is the pre-writing of my own book. Running or doing yoga and meditation is the pre-writing. That invisible labor is what I really rely on.

This or That? The Other, Thanks

YOU SAID THAT WHEN PENELOPE TOLD YOU AT THREE-YEARS-OLD THAT HE'S A BOY, THAT WAS THE MOST RADICAL SHIFT IN YOUR LIFE …
So when he told me “I am a boy, Mama.” Yeah, it was the most radical. I mean, I can't think of another moment. When you have a child that you think is one gender and they tell you I'm entirely another gender. Simply put — it rocked my world.

YOU FELT CONFUSED?
Yes! How could this child be a boy? I convinced myself I had failed to raise a feminist. Maybe if I’d just tell him more about Shirley Chisholm …

SHIRLEY’S PRETTY CONVINCING …
In fact, those things made him depressed. He said: Mama. I love you but I don’t want to be you. I like the story of Shirley C. But I don’t want to be her.

DEEP.
So it was radical — the shift was my thinking. The way we have divided the world into male and female. It's much more layered and contextual. And so it affected the way I looked at children, but also at myself and concepts, language, everything. I no longer think of anything as one of two choices.

NOW ALL POSSIBILITIES ….
Which one are you? This or that. What do you want? This or that. And now for me it is endless options. (laughs)

I GREW UP IN BROOKLYN. BUT MY MID YEARS WERE IN JOISEY. THAT'S WHERE GIL SCOTT HERON WAS SO IMPORTANT TO ME — I COULDN’T WAIT TO GET TO THE PLACE WHERE THIS GUY LIVES! HE FUELED MY NEWARK ART SCHOOL DAYS.
Wow that is funny.

HE WAS SUCH A PART OF MY YOUTH SO I FLIPPED OUT WHEN I WHEN I SAW THIS CONNECTION BETWEEN US. 
I just knew Uncle Gil was different. I really didn’t know the magnitude of his genius. I was a kid. His whole mannerism was different than the other adults in my family. The way he dressed and spoke. He was a smoker. He was a cool cat. And my mom's a pretty conservative Southern lady. But we're all at the table together. He is respected. He is welcome. And no one is flinching.

AH, FANTASTIC.
And that's kind of how my family is. I have a kid who's conservative. Who doesn't think abortion should be legal.

REALLY?
I have a kid who does not think transgender is scientifically proven. I have another kid who is trans, I have a feminist. I have an athlete. I have brainy types. And we’re all at the dinner table. I think that's from my family.

AND DEBATE IS ENCOURAGED — NO SCREAMING ALLOWED?
The hardest part. (laughs.) No screaming. And you gotta let people finish their statement.

“Which one are you. This or that. What do you want? This or that. And now for me — it is endless options. ”

WE HAVE ONE MEMBER OF OUR FAMILY WHO HAS CYSTIC FIBROSIS. AND HE HAD BEEN THE OBJECT OF SO MUCH OF HIS PARENTS’ ATTENTION GROWING UP. THERE WAS ANGER AND ENVY WITH THE OTHER SIBLINGS. DID YOU DEAL WITH THAT WITH PENELOPE AND HIS SIBLINGS?
Oh yes. Oh, by the way, Penelope is now 14 and has just asked to change his name to be Penel. It got too complicated in high school to have a name that draws so much attention.

MAKES SENSE.
For sure I got backlash. In the beginning when I was hyper focused on protecting Penel from the really obvious transphobia, I’d be taking him to class, basketball, everything so that I could see that people were supportive. I have finite time and energy. So I was not able to put that same intensity into the other children. I was thinking about LGBT rights. I got laser focused.

YES. AND SCIENCE AND MANGA MAY NOT BE THREATENING TO THEIR LIVES …
And so that pissed my boy who's now 16. You can’t avoid that.

NO, I DON’T THINK YOU CAN.
He said to me: “Mama all you know is transgender.” That was maybe seven years ago — and that hurt.

I said I was really sorry. I frickin’ just haven't spent enough time with you. You want to go to a Science Festival? You want to read a Manga book together?

It's taken years to build the time back when I wasn't always there … but we’re working on it.

WOULD YOU SAY THAT PENEL IS GOING TO HAVE A MORE COMPLICATED JOURNEY BECAUSE HE IS BLACK AND TRANS?
For sure. Being different is complicated. And black trans is a double whammy.

SO. HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT?
Penel's put himself in places that respect him, that don't question him. Around people who are black and trans and so, in our neighborhood — in our proverbial neighborhood — it’s not a problem.

FANTASTIC THAT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD EXISTS. BROOKLYN! 
For the young teens that he's around — it's like no big deal. He keeps saying “Mom, are you adults still talking about this?”

I LOVE THE NEW WORLD THAT'S COMING OUR WAY. SO MUCH HOPE.
Yeah. There really is. And I said to him: “Do your friends at school know that you're trans?” He's like: “All they have to do is Google me. Why would I tell them the obvious like, we're not reading our bios to each other in ninth grade.” (we laugh.)

WHAT DO YOU WANT IN YOUR NEXT DECADES — AT 60, 70, 80…? DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT?
I’m quite aware that 60 is coming quickly. I have many thoughts that I want to share in book form, in film form. I think I see myself not living in this city — and every day being able to stretch my eyeballs out on the horizon, gazing off. I see myself in warm weather by the sea. Traveling to see my children who might live all over the world.

And I see myself in love.

I SEE THE FINITENESS, AND IT DOESN'T SCARE ME. IT'S JUST MAKING USE OF THIS TIME.
You know, I've never been nervous to age. I don't want to become more scared. Feeling less afraid, you know, it's a practice you have to cultivate.

CAN YOU GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING YOU HAD TO LEARN THE HARD WAY?
Oh. Humility with my kids.

That was a hard one. I have always loved and adored them. But essentially, I never thought of the concept of earning their love or being humble. And I’ve been reading bell hooks. And …

I JUST GOT “ALL ABOUT LOVE”
Read it. In bite sized pieces. She says all relationships need humility.

Burnout Is Real

AND HOW ABOUT FOR YOURSELF?
You cannot go all out for years and years on your body and not suffer consequences. I was living on adrenaline. I got three hours sleep when I was starting a company the day after I'd given birth — back to work two weeks after a birth.  

SO YOU LISTENED.
My doctor said, you need a Plan B: An exit strategy. Because where your levels are, you won't even make it for another five years.

Now that was an eye opener — that my body is actually finite. And I've done so much stress to it. It’s not something you can reverse necessarily. Now – with a new awareness — I am maintaining a calmness, because I know where it can go. That was learning the hard way.

I RELATE. MY BRAIN NEARLY OUTED ME A FEW YEARS AGO FROM TOO MUCH STRESS. I CHANGED IT ALL UP.
See what we can do? The gut punch was when my high blood pressure reached stroke level. The body was saying: You might have great skin but you gotta calm down woman.

SO YOU’VE STOOD UP FOR RACIAL EQUITY, FEMINISM, LGBT RIGHTS — WHAT’S YOUR FEELING ABOUT AGEISM AS AN ACTIVIST?
In my day-to-day life, ageism comes up — but it’s about how adults de-prioritize kids.

VERY INTERESTING.
Ageism is something that I speak of a lot in my home. Because of course, as the adult, you're the dominant culture.

THAT’S THE TRUTH. WE KIND OF RULE.
Ageism is interesting, because in my community, the way I grew up — the black community, feminist black community, I never really heard folks talk so much about ageism. Racism and sexism have been the larger conversation.

I UNDERSTAND.
In my Black community, as we got older, we were given more respect. There's the matriarch and patriarch of the black community.  

I'm writing this TV adaptation of my book, The Bold World book. When I’m talking to producers, they need me as age 40, not 50. And Penel was three when he said: I am a boy, but they wanted him to be six. So I’m seeing ageism more and more.

WHO WOULD YOU SAY SHAPED YOU THE MOST IN YOUR LIFE? WHO MADE JODIE???
There is not one person. But a wall of women — and I have a collage that travels with me in every house I have had. I see myself — this one body — as those 40 women. And some of them are in their 80s — like Bethann Hardison. Some I know. Some I’ve just read about — and some of them are dead. Like my great grandmother.

SO I AM CURIOUS ABOUT BETHANN. WHAT DOES SHE BRING YOU?
You know, some people think — because of her age — she's going to be quiet and they start to whisper …  like she’s a yogi or something. You are 50. She is 80. What do you talk about? Whaaa? Oh no. she's a sharpshooter. She's witty as fuck. We don’t just do dinners? We do tequila!

I KNOW. RIGHT? ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS NOW IS 83. AND IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS WE BECAME BESTIES — THROUGH GB —AND SHE'S A FABULOUS FASHIONISTA UP FOR ANYTHING. SHE GIVES ME INSIGHTS FOR KICKIN ASS THAT LONG! (LAUGHS)

CAN YOU GIVE ME A ONE LINE ANSWER TO A COUPLE OF WORDS I'M GOING TO THROW AT YOU:

BEAUTY
Comes from emotion.
SEX
(Laughs) It is one of the things that makes my skin glow  
EQUALITY
Equity and equality. This term that has been so loaded. And it gets tossed around in boardrooms.
YES. DIVERSITY TOO.
And the subject matter of diversity inclusion and equity gets all convoluted. Equity vs equality.

But what I can tell you is … it looks like my dinner table.

BEAUTIFUL.

YOU ARE SUCH AN INCREDIBLE GLORIOUS BROAD. WHAT DOES GLORIOUS MEAN TO YOU?
Oh — Glorious. My grandmother's name is Gloria. I love the word glory. And the word Glorious. It has this bigness and roundness to it. It makes me smile. It makes me think of family and women. And it makes me think of glow. Sunshine. All of the things that I want in my life.

You know — be a glowing dominant women.

FABULOUS JODIE.

Have you somehow made it to the end of this interview without following Jodie's Insta? Remedy that at @jodiepatterson. Check out her memoir The Bold World and her children’s book: Born Ready: The True Story of a Boy Named Penelope, which just won 3 awards, by the by …

Glorious Broad #24: Stacy London

PHOTOS: CHRISTOPHER SCALZI / DISTILLED STUDIO

Stacy London — puttin’ the rock in CEO

Make it swing, Stacy!

Demonstrating how to claim that space, ladies. Yes. We belong here.

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: TV star turned CEO

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Straight shooter, transformer, hard worker

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Fashion forward, Transparent, Change Agent

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“Accept aging. That’s the grace.”

Separated at birth?? At first I didn’t think I'd have much in common with Stacy London. She was the star of What Not to Wear and I ... well, most of the folks on Perry Street know me. And yes, I have style … but not STACY-level-build-a-career-on-it style.

But what we share is profound: We’re fierce. We’re funny. And we're both getting comfortable — getting REAL — about aging. The good news. The bad news. No sugar-coating. No bullshit. And no shame. Wrapping our arms around the next chapter. Stacy walked away from TV to become CEO of State of Menopause — a company focused on products to help women through (what used to be called) THE CHANGE. And our girl knows her shit — on the road 24-7 talkin the talk, walkin the walk. Check out my twinsie soul sister and Glorious Broad, Stacy London.

YOU ARE GLORIOUSLY TRANSPARENT ABOUT AGING. WHY IS THAT?
Because I spent too long trying to be what I thought others wanted me to be — and felt resentful.  I had to learn to own my insecurities and not see them as flaws — but facets of being human. The more truth you can tell, the safer others feel to share their truth too. This has been my experience.

DID YOU DREAM AT 16 THAT YOU’D BE THE GLORIOUS BROAD THAT YOU ARE TODAY?
At 16, I was worried about my hair, not my future.

From TV Star to … ?

YOUR CAREER SHIFT — FROM TV HOST TO CEO AT 52, I AM WONDERING ABOUT THAT PIVOT.

WAS THERE SHAME IN NOT SELLING YOUR TV IDEA AFTER BEING A STAR — OR SLOW RECOGNITION FOR YOUR NEED TO CHANGE?
I want to say both.

DO TELL: WHAT WAS THE SHOW ABOUT?
I pitched this in 2018. About multigeneration mentorship, like a 25-year-old can teach a 45-year-old how to be more digitally savvy. But a 45-year-old might teach a 25-year-old about broken hearts. Everybody was like, nobody's going to watch it.

OUCH.
Yeah. I stopped doing full time TV in 2016. And that had to do with my spine surgery and recovery. I kept thinking — I'm gonna get back into the business. But something was always cutting me off at the knees.

DO YOU THINK YOUR TV IDEAS WERE REJECTED BECAUSE OF:
a. SEXISM
b. AGEISM
c. ALL OF THE ABOVE

Definitely C.

WHAT ABOUT THE PRESSURE  TO LOOK 32 FOREVER? THAT MUST HAVE BEEN A BITCH.
I was 48. My body was changing. My skin, my psyche. I remember thinking: I will never look like I used to — and I didn’t like that.

A UNIVERSAL STRUGGLE, BUT MOST OF US DON'T HAVE TO PLAY THAT OUT ON TV... WHAT WAS GOING ON FOR YOU EMOTIONALLY WITH THIS REJECTION …
My dad died in November of 2018. Completely devastating. The grief was so real, the brain fog and the deep sadness — the anxiety and depression. I was completely resigned that I would never be ok again. A numbness set in.

And I didn't know how to connect the dots. I thought menopause was optional, or it happened to other people.

Just When You Thought You Were Safe

OH GIRL: I WAS SO THERE
I attributed every single issue I had, that is clearly menopause, either to physical trauma from surgery or to emotional trauma from losing my father.

I RELATE. I LOST MY SISTER AT 50. I WAS SUDDENLY SAD, DEPRESSED, OUT OF CONTROL,  SICK OF MY VERY SUCCESSFUL JOB, AND  NOT HAVING FUN REINVENTING MYSELF. IT TOOK A FRIEND OF MINE, WHICH IS WACKY, TO SAY YOU'RE IN MENOPAUSE GIRL.
I'm sorry. But every time I meet somebody who speaks the same language — it's an aha moment. The more we talk about it we are able to really help one another through it.

SO WHAT PUSHED YOU TO ACT?
COVID. The first time in in my life I took a true pause.

YES. THE SILVER LINING OF THE PANDEMIC.
It gave me clarity. This idea that there is no other person for me to be other than on television? I've done this for 15 years — before that I was a magazine editor. What if I don't want to make people over anymore?

People were telling me transformation shows aren't in right now. It's only competition shows. I was like: What do I do in the meantime? I am not a self-starter — or I thought i wasn't a self-starter.

YOU GOT THAT WRONG
Well, I knew I didn’t want to be an influencer — I don't have anything to say that people aren't already saying. I've said it.

YOU HAVE.
And I realized — menopause has been so hard for me. Why am I not talking about this existential crisis I was stewing in and miserable over …

FROM THE PERSONAL COMES THE UNIVERSAL … THAT’S YOUR QUOTE
Yes it is. (laughs) The kernel of all of my work is helping people identify what gives them self-esteem.

A CEO is Born...

WHERE DOES BEING THE CEO OF YOUR OWN MENOPAUSE COMPANY COME IN?
I started beta testing State of Menopause  — and I was very noisy. (laughs) They were making a middle- aged skincare product — but I saw something bigger.

The company decided to sell their brands — and I bought them and made it the company.

SO ARE YOU AIMING TO BE ONE OF THOSE MULTIGENERATIONAL JOINTS WITH FLEXIBLE WORK SPACE AND A FLAT ORG STRUCTURE TO ATTRACT THE ZOOMERS?
I am committed to walk the walk. We're affordable because of socio-economic disparity, we're making products good for all ethnicities, we use gender neutral language. What we say matters. And I do see younger CEOs working this way.

ALEX FINE, FOUNDER OF DAME PRODUCTS IS SUCH AN EXAMPLE OF THIS. SO REFRESHING – AND HOPEFUL. AND A GB BY THE BY WHO’S VERY VERY FUNNY …

SO, IN THE END, YOU USED THAT OLD ADAGE: “WRITE WHAT YOU KNOW”
Yes. It was there right under my nose.

“I am committed to walk the walk. We’re making products good for all ethnicities. We use gender neutral language. What we say matters.”

WAS THIS THE BIGGEST RISK OF YOUR LIFE?
By far.

I THINK IT'S INTERESTING WHEN PEOPLE THINK REINVENTION IS EASY — BANKER TO  BAKER CRAP. IT'S NOT AT ALL. LOOK WHAT YOU WENT THROUGH … THE REJECTION FROM MEDIA, WHO AM I. IT’S A BITCH.
Oh for sure. And, now, I'm talking to investors.

OH I HAVE HEARD HOW SEXIST THAT CAN BE …
Oh Yes.  And they're like — who's going to run your company?

Being put back in a box — yet again. I’m not gonna let that happen.

OH NO YOU WON’T. (laughs)

WELL, MENOPAUSE IS IN THE AIR. IT FEELS LIKE MAYBE IT IS OUR GENERATION WHO HAVE MADE THIS SHIFT TO TALK.
Yes. And then, Suzanne Somners kind of falls in the middle. God bless her. She really did try to have this conversation. She was way early. I think I might be a little too early for it. But I don't care. We start where we are.

GB IS ALL ABOUT OWNING AGE, BEING REAL.
Yes. No sugar-coating age. We have this terrible association — being past your expiration date.
We’re taught to value youth and wealth. Being thin, right?
But we're gonna be older a lot longer than were gonna be younger.

I HAVE SUCH A PROBLEM WITH “AGING GRACEFULLY” — I WANNA ROAR THANKYOUVERYMUCH.
When we say “aging gracefully” — we put a value judgement on something inevitable.
Accept aging. That’s the grace.

LET’S MOVE THAT NEEDLE BABY

“I never looked at my life and said: Okay, now I’m going to date women. I simply fell in love with this person. This woman.”

DID YOU LEARN ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR SEXUALITY, YOUR BODY, YOUR FUTURE, FROM YOUR PARENTS?
I grew up with baby boomers. We kept everything private. And we didn't realize how harmful keeping secrets could be. And now we've got younger generations who are deconstructing race, gender... It's a whole new world.

AND THIS YOUNGER GENERATION TALKING ABOUT THEIR PERIODS, THEIR BODIES ... IN A WAY WE NEVER DID …
Infertility. Post partum …

Part of the reason I wanted to talk about my personal experience with aging, with menopause with so much transparency — I feel younger generations gave me permission to do it

SPEAKING OF SEXUALITY … HOW WAS YOURS DURING MENOPAUSE? MINE DIED.
My female gynecologist said: Use it or lose it. Then I guess I lost it. Because I had no sex drive whatsoever. I loved sex. Then I had this kind of reckoning when I fell in love with a woman.

The Great Awakening

AND WHAT IS THAT?
I'm learning more and more about this. It is a stage of life where you know women are willing to take more chances. And I did that …

SO. WHAT HAPPENED? I HAVE SEEN YOU TWO TOGETHER AND IT IS …
I simply fell in love with this person. This woman …

WAS THAT A SURPRISE TO YOU? …
I wouldn't say I was perfectly happy being straight because I dated such shitty guys. But, aside from that, I never looked at it and said: Okay, now I'm going to date women.

I NOTED YOU TOOK A YEAR TO ANNOUNCE YOU AND CAT, YOUR GIRLFRIEND, ON SOCIAL MEDIA
Well, I wasn’t sure at first if it was just a fling. Was I just curious — what was it…? But my being as a sexual person did change. And there is a lot more intimacy in the way that I experience sex now. As opposed to this insane, fleeting passion — there’s still passion and desire there. But It's so much more intricate and so much more interesting to me.

INTERESTING TO YOU — DO YOU MEAN — LESS PERFORMANCE?
Less performative. Now I have this true mutual love and understanding that allows for more intricacy. And that's something that I never expected. I'm not saying like — you have to go date women to feel that. But I do feel it’s a wonderful time of life to be able to experiment with how sex changes for you.  It is not static. Sex changes, but it doesn't have to disappear.

MY PROBLEM WITH INVISIBLE: WE CHOOSE TO BE INVISIBLE. AND THAT INCLUDES A ROLLICKING SEX LIFE…
Yes! And Cat makes me feel safe. And loved.

Stacy with her partner, Cat Yezbak … purrrrrr

IF I WERE TO ASK YOU FOR ONE MESSAGE TO YOUNGER WOMEN, WHAT WOULD IT BE?
Surround yourself with the people who will lift you up on this roller coaster of a ride; those who cheer you on and watch your back. Everyone else is just passing through.

I AGREE WITH YOU THAT DURING THE GLOBAL “PAUSE”, WE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REFLECT — I WONDER IF THE FASHION INDUSTRY AND THE BEAUTY INDUSTRY — WILL THEY EVOLVE AFTER COVID? WHAT’S YOUR TAKE?
I truly hope that it will be less about beauty in terms of vanity, and more about beauty in terms of wellness. I'm sure there will be those people who can't wait to put high heels back on and dress to the nines and whatever.

I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU IF YOU'RE WEARING STILETTOS.
No.

ITS OVER?
I am wearing a pair of boots actually. I want people to come back and celebrate fashion. But I want fashion to be deliberate!

Our Next Change Agent is... High Fashion? Yep.

I'm hoping that style starts to take precedence over fashion. Fashion is an industry built on insecurity and style is about personal agency, right?
Fashion can make a real social change.

HMMMMM. LIKE WHAT?
Look at Pier Piciolli from Valentino. He’s so smart.

WELL, I LOVE HIS CASTING … WHAT ELSE?
He was wearing a sweatshirt on Instagram that said V, you know, the Valentino V. But underneath it, it said vaccinated, and it was not made by him. It was made by this a company in LA called Cloney — who does all sorts of funny things.

NO CEASE AND DESIST ORDER?
No. Pierre not only bought the rest of the sweatshirts that Cloney had. He gave one to Lady Gaga and other A+ celebs. What he said to Cloney was, look, I am going to make these sweatshirts for you. Under Valentino's label. You donate the idea. I will put up the money for them. And all of the proceeds will go to getting people vaccinated in countries where the vaccine isn't possible.

WHA!? EVERYBODY WINDS UP WINNING?
Yes! So this is what fashion can do. Just think of what is possible with the kind of power that these brands have — that kind of money.

Did you see the special Bo Burnham did — INSIDE? Oooooo. That comedian called out my earnestness. And I can be earnest. But Pier acted!

“Live — and dress — into who you are right now. Instead of trying to be who you were. ”

SO SPEAKING POLITICALLY CORRECT — HOW DO YOU FEEL WHEN YOU SEE SOME OF THE OLDER SEASONS OF WHAT NOT TO WEAR — DO THEY MAKE YOU CRINGE?
Yeah. I cringe at some of them. I mean — two white people telling a woman of color what she can and cannot wear? Or telling a woman what she cannot wear after you’re 35? But that was then. And this is now.

WELL, I’VE GOT TO ASK YOU SOME FASHION QUESTIONS WOMAN
Go!

DO YOU HAVE ANY RULES FOR OLDER VERSUS YOUNGER IN TERMS OF FASHION NOW?
No. And I'll tell you why. At What Not to Wear — we were really trying to make people over so that they looked palatable to others, right? And now I say, live into who you are right now. Instead of trying to be who you were. I really want to encourage people to trust their own instinct.

TAKES KNOWING YOURSELF. IN THIS MOMENT. AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DO DRESS FROM THEIR PAST – KIND OF RECREATING WHAT THEY THINK WAS THEIR “PEAK”. HEY! I CATCH MYSELF DOING THAT …
During COVID, I got rid of a ton of clothes. I don't even know what I like anymore. Even I’m confused. I was holding on to things that I looked good in years ago on What Not to Wear. That is the difference between understanding where you are and nostalgia. I love women whose style evolves and has consistency. Sharon Stone is a perfect example. That woman has aged in a way that I – I am like MWAH

GLORIOUS BROAD!
She's not denying her age. She’s not flaunting it. She just is who she is — completely — and that is exactly the way that emboldens and empowers you. And if you wanted to define your waistline, or wear a pointy toe shoe, good on you.

IS IT HARD TO TURN OFF THAT FASHION ADVICE IN YOUR PERSONAL LIFE — WITH YOUR PARTNER? She asks me and I always have an opinion. I mean, you know, that's part of my DNA (laughs)

AND HOW ABOUT WHEN YOU’RE OUT IN PUBLIC?
Sometimes I do have to walk around with blinders on. (laughs)

Do you know Advanced Style? I love them. I’m dressed very  '90s today — black shirt, wide leg khakis with a pair of boots — minimalist — and I feel awesome. But if I wanted to wear a ball gown and a fascinator — who the hell is goin to tell me that it’s inappropriate for my age?

NOBODY WOMAN!

Mentor Corner

WHO WOULD YOU SAY IS YOUR BIGGEST MENTOR IN LIFE?
Oh that’s hard. I’ve had many. But here are a few:
My dad. And my mom. In very different ways.
Katie Couric. She so helped me in the business.
Oprah being another one.

THE OPRAH?
Oprah opened doors for me. So much came after I was on Oprah a few times.  
Andre Leon Talley when I was a fashion editor.
And Whoopi Goldberg. Whoopi taught me what it means to stand up for yourself.

“Another mentor? Whoopi Goldberg. She taught me what it means to stand up for yourself.”

ANOTHER GLORIOUS ONE …

HAS YOUR CORE STAYED THE SAME … FROM THE YOUNG WOMAN THAT YOU WERE TO WHO YOU ARE NOW?
Not at all. I truly used to be a real bully and a bitch. Especially when I was young. I had deep insecurity and fear. Yeah, and it has taken me a long time to forgive myself for that, and to grow from it and be a different kind of person. Everything is always evolving.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO OVER AGAIN IF YOU COULD?
I’d save more money and invest in women/queer/BIPOC companies.

DO YOU HAVE A MANTRA IN LIFE?
Why not me?

DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A FEMINIST?
I had a mom who burned her bra, right? This is the woman who paved the way for me. So there is no way that I could look at my life and say that I wasn’t going to grow to be anything else.

YOU REALLY ARE A GLORIOUS BROAD. WHAT DOES GLORIOUS MEAN TO YOU?
Glorious is a root word for joy.
And I love the name Glorious Broads.

WELL – WHAT ABOUT THE WORD BROADS?
Now that is what I thought you were going to ask. That’s my type of woman.

Want some pausin' for the menopausin'? Stacy's company, The State of Menopause has got you. Want some real Stacy: IG @stacylondonreal

Glorious Broad #23: Sheryl Roberts

STYLE/VINTAGE/SASS BY SHERYL INDIGOSTYLE VINTAGE

PHOTOS: CHRISTOPHER SCALZI / DISTILLED STUDIO

Who can wear a hat? Sheryl can fucking WEAR a hat.

Flourishing honey …

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: The Cooooolest Brooklyn Vintage Boutique Owner, Sometimes Model, Sometimes Actress

GLORIOUS PERSONA: No Fear, Woman of Action, Got Her Shit Together

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Classy AF, Stylish, Survivor — and Funky!

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“I really am fearless now. I have more energy. I get more shit done. Getting through that divorce and the ordeal — it gave me a confidence and a power I didn’t know I had. ”

Glorious Broad Sheryl Roberts shines. Glows. Effervesces. Over the last 18 years I've watched her light shine — dim — and shine again. In the early days it was me hiring her as a model — watching her land covers for Ebony, Essence — starring in campaigns for Mizani, L’oreol — appearing in commercials, TV spots — Improv. Sheryl conquered. But it's never that simple — we know this. A divorce, financial obstacles, trying to navigate the modeling, entertainment business as an aging black woman... Her light faded. And then: the Sheryl Renaissance. These days she’s taken back the joy, the lightness, the power. She’s reinvented herself as the coooooolest vintage boutique owner — The Collective at Indigo Style in Brooklyn. Watching this beautiful Phoenix rising — it is an honor to introduce the powerhouse Glorious Broad Sheryl Roberts. She goes there — and shares so much inspiration and wisdom...

YOU WERE A SUCCESSFUL ACTOR AND MODEL — WHY A  VINTAGE BOUTIQUE?
The boutique was an accident. But going into vintage was a necessity. ‘Cause I was stone broke. Thanks to a grueling divorce — took 9 damn years …

OOOOOOOO
Yeah. But I need a cocktail for that. I didn’t have anything – except a closet full of clothes….so…

I sent texts, emails, posted fliers, made cocktails, cookies — you name it. People I didn’t know showed up at my home. Scary. But I needed that cash …

THIS WAS ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO?
Yes. Doing it whenever I could.

YOU HAVE GROWN THIS AMAZING BUSINESS SINGLE-HANDEDLY... I STILL LOVE THAT FABULOUS FAUX COAT I GOT FROM YOU EARLY ON…
I had my car running — double parked, bitch … I hauled that leopard number into the cafe — lean and mean.

YOU ARE SUCH A ROCK STAR SUCCESS NOW. AND YOUR EARLY CAREER, TOO. BUT YOU'VE HIT SOME HARD TIMES ALONG THE WAY...
My career as an actor/model was very successful. But then… jobs weren’t coming in like they used to … and that divorce slayed me financially. So yeah — I’ve been through it.

ENTER THE ENTREPRENEUR...

AND HERE WE ARE — IN YOUR FAB VINTAGE STORE IN BROOKLYN. ALL MANIFESTED AFTER AGE 50 …
Yeah. When I had money? Had a bunch of stuff in my closet that I never wore — or wore once.  So I started shopping my own closet and saying — ok — I got this summer dress — I can put a turtle neck and make it a winter dress or put jeans under this dress. I started ignoring the things people say you are "supposed" to do and just doing what I wanted. It opened up a whole world.

I always loved vintage. Then I started vintage shopping. And in time got a small space in somebody else’s store — and made the jump to open this tight store.

I LOVE THAT ITS POCKETBOOK FRIENDLY AND SAVING THE GOD DAMN PLANET.
I am so about sustainability and the beauty of vintage clothes — clothes that have a story. A history. People are afraid to wear other people’s clothes. And I am like: Sage that shit down — put it in your laundry and wear it!

The thing about vintage is. You can look classic. I got a great Brooks Brothers blazer that’s vintage. Classic. But I also have really cool prints and patterns for people who wanna be more hip. There is no age to that. — i’s not just millennials or rich people. There are so many tiers — couture, thrift. Vintage clothes have a story, a design, a silhouette.

“Now I’m just gonna wear shit that brings me joy. I’m only gonna do shit that I really want to do. I’m only going to hang out with people that I like. And once I started doing that, my life changed drastically.”

AND YOU’VE HAD SOME SERIOUS PRESS THIS YEAR …
One of my customers included me in her piece in Elle – that’s press you can’t buy – It’s usually through word of mouth.

SO YOUR SUCCESS HAS BROUGHT YOU A CERTAIN SENSE OF FEARLESSNESS?
My success and my failures — because I have failed. Some people think that failure is the end. But failure can be the beginning to something else. I'm not afraid to fail anymore.

LET’S DISCUSS — YOU WERE SUCCESSFUL AS A MODEL. AS AN ACTOR. WHAT WOULD YOUR FAILURES BE?
Oh woman. Even in modeling, so many failures. I've been up for major contracts that could've propelled me into the stratosphere that I missed by this much. I've had two different television shows. And for whatever reason — one with COVID — canceled. To me they are failures.

ABSOLUTELY.
I failed at my marriage.

OUCH. 
The marriage didn't last. But, I got a great kid.

I would not be who I am now had I not gone through that. So, yes, I have been through failures — and it's ok.

MODEL BEHAVIOR

YOUR MODELING CAREER COINCIDED WITH SERIOUS CHANGE IN THE BIZ AROUND RACE AND AGE? WHAT WAS THIS LIKE FOR YOU ON THE FRONT LINES?
When I modeled they had categories — Black and the occasional Asian: We’d get one or two shots. The white girl would get shots for the rest of the day. And they wanted a mainstream Black person, fine features, straight hair — so I was in demand. When I got older, work slowed down tremendously — not because of my age but because I didn’t look my age. When they put me next to a 25-year-old — you could tell I was older but next to a 47-year-old I didn't look quite right either. So there was no place for me. And I started needing to be me — cut my hair, took my weave out — and I didn’t work as much.

AND HOW ARE THINGS DIFFERENT NOW?
There's a bigger category for older women. So that part is good. And they're starting to open up the color barrier a little bit more: Asian, Indian, Black. But often companies roll with the tide. So when Black Lives Matter, Black models matter.

So — is it all the trending thing? Is it all marketing? We will see …

I REMEMBER YOU AS A CLASSIC MODEL. WEARING YOUR TRENDS AND YOUR LABELS. KNOCKING IT OUT BUT … DIFFERENT FROM THIS LOOK YOU ARE ROCKING.  
When I was turning 50 I had this thing: I am not really modeling any more — I don’t have to look any way other than what I want. Now I’m just gonna wear shit that brings me joy. I’m only gonna do shit that I really want to do. I’m only going to hang out with people that I like. And once I started doing that, my life changed drastically.

HAVE YOU ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN RE-USING, RE-IMAGINING, AND UPCYLCING FOR CLOTHES?
As a kid, no, I just wanted to look like everybody else. Brand new clothes, nothing used. As I got older and started modeling and seeing fashion and the prices and the lack of quality in a lot of things — it drove me to vintage, and to thrifting because of the aesthetic. Now I like to look different than everybody else. So number one was price. I can dress beautifully for a fraction of the cost. Secondly, what it was doing for the environment.

THE CLOTHES DOCTOR IS IN

I THOUGHT IT WAS SO INTERESTING WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT YOU BEING A STYLE CONSULTANT AT YOUR STORE. IT’S ALMOST LIKE BEING A SHRINK  —  YOU HEAR A LOT OF  THE FASHION BLOCKS AND CLOTHING ANXIETIES WOMEN HAVE — HOW DO YOU HELP WITH THAT?
People would always come in and say — when I lose 10 lbs — then I can get that dress. When I have someplace to go — then I’ll buy something fancy. When you think about how you were at 20 or 30 — even back then you thought, oh I can't wear this or after I lose weight. But now when we look at pictures of ourselves — every single person is like DANG: What was I thinking … I look dope! Right? I was beautiful, or I was the perfect size or I was. Enjoy where you are right now.

AND I realized from working with other people that it brought attention to my own hang-ups – it helped me get over a lot of things that I used to carry.   

OLD FASHION RULES YOU’RE SAYING?
That — and more. But yeah: Who made that shit up? You can't wear white. Or you can't wear stripes if you're size 12. Ridiculous.

If you are uncomfortable with your arms, we can work on that. But, are you just gonna only wear long sleeves for the rest of your life? Free yourself!

I will wear a ball gown — literally — a big sweeping ball gown with sneakers and a jean jacket.

I wear this to work. This is who I am. And always was by the way …  just have the guts to be me now.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE BIGGEST RISK YOU'VE TAKEN IN YOUR LIFE?
Starting my business with no money. And no retail experience.

UHHHH YEAH!
I borrowed money, maxed out my credit cards and just did it.  And I was like, you know, this has to work.

“I will wear a ball gown — literally — a big sweeping ball gown with sneakers and a jean jacket.”

WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED IN STARTING THIS BUSINESS?
ASK! Before I would be afraid to ask questions — people might think I was stupid or — whatever — now? Even if I don’t know — I’ll say yes — and figure it out as best I can. And ask!

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO SOMEONE CAUGHT IN A RUT WHO WANTS TO MAKE A SHIFT? WE TALK ABOUT REINVENTION — BUT IT AIN’T EASY.
It’s not easy. People have an idea of what their life should have been and when it doesn’t turn out that way, there is disillusionment, sadness — like you didn’t have kids or you didn’t get married. Whatever you are going through is always a set up for something better. If I hadn’t gone through that fucking divorce — I would not be the person that I am. And I would not trade this Sheryl now for anything …. If you want to do something. Just do it. If something happens and it doesn’t work out, try something else. But you have to start. It might go this way or that way but … start.

AND THE ART OF LETTING GO…
Yes. I know people are surprised that I give zero fucks about a lot of shit. Clearly you have to care about certain people — but you gotta let stuff go. When people do stuff to me or I perceive that — half the time it is not even about me — its about them.

TRUTH ... AND WHAT ABOUT BOUNDARIES?
The next most important thing in your life is using the word NO. That opened up my life. Not today. I don’t think so. It's not for me. NO.

YOU HAD TO RECOVER FROM LOSING A LOT DURING THIS MARRIAGE. EVEN MONEY — DID YOU HAVE TO FINANCIALLY START OVER?
Yes I did. But that was a good lesson, too. Now I know that for anything — there's a god damn contract. I will never lose my money like that again.

DO YOU HAVE ANY DESIRE TO PARTNER AGAIN?
In business? I think I would go into it with a lot more business savvy versus emotional — how I feel about the person. You have to have the same synergy. And a contract.

AND ROMANTICALLY?
Same!

DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A FEMINIST?
Sort of kind of. I'm from the south. Dallas. So I do have a traditional value system in certain things. And then in other things I’m 100% women could, should, do all of that equally and better.

“Before I was afraid, like if something went wrong, what am I going to do now? Now whatever happens I think: What’s the lesson in this? What’s my next step? Not so much fear or trepidation anymore.”

SO WOULD YOU SAY THE CORE OF THIS WOMAN THAT I AM LOOKING AT TODAY IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE WOMAN OF 30 YEARS AGO.
100% — I am different than I was last year. Definitely two years ago. Some people love it. Some people hate it. But I am much more sure of myself.

I FEEL IT.
And I mean in every way. If I have a lover. Its gonna be reciprocal. I am taking charge of my life and its opened me up to so much happiness and pleasure that I never had before.

I want to only be around people that bring me joy. The same thing with my clothes …

YESSSSS.

AT FIRST I WAS AFRAID, I WAS PETRIFIED .....

ARE YOU GETTING YET MORE RESILIENT WITH AGE OR …
Definitely. I really am fearless. I have more energy. I get more shit done. Getting through that divorce and the ordeal — it gave me a confidence and a power I didn’t know I had. I work harder than I have in my whole entire life. I get up in the morning at 5am — I go to bed around 1 or 2 at night and work my ass off all day. I like it because I am more in control of my destiny. Modeling? I had no control. Acting? Worse …

Before I was afraid, like if something went wrong, , what am I going to do now? Now whatever happens I think: What's the lesson in this? What's my next step? Not so much fear or trepidation anymore.

DO YOU HAVE A SPIRITUAL PRACTICE? WHAT KEEPS YOU CENTERED THROUGH ALL OF THIS?
I grew up very — not a church cult — but Baptist religious. That is not me. I don’t think I have to quote the Bible to just say or do the right thing.

I am trying to be still. Its hard for me. One of the things I have learned — is to breathe.

I AM LEARNING THIS TOO
It’s great for sex. And my bad back. And it grounds me.

TAKE IT FROM YOUR ELDER, IT’S IMPORTANT TO SELF-CARE.

WHAT CAN YOU NOT LIVE WITHOUT?
Even more important than clothes — good food. And genuine love.

WHAT WILL 65-YEAR-OLD SHERYL BE?
Really dope, self assured and badass. I mean I think I'm there now, but I hope that I'll just be even more.

WHAT DOES THE WORD GLORIOUS MEAN TO YOU? SINCE WE HAVE DEEMED YOU A GLORIOUS BROAD?
Unabashed.

OH, I LOVE THAT.
You know you want some cool vintage gear after reading this — check out Sheryl's boutique on Intsa at IndigoStyleVintage

Glorious Broad #22: Bettye LaVette

The Queen has arrived. Now: Sit down and listen Muthafucka.

PHOTO: ELIZABETH FLADUNG

My beloved nephew brought this ferocious R&B songstress, Bettye LaVette, into my consciousness after he profiled her for Vanity Fair in 2009. I hadn't started Glorious Broads yet, but had been incubating and ruminating with trusted confidantes — like nephew dear. He saw right off that Bettye embodied everything I'd been thinking of for a Glorious Broad — she is funny, unconventional, gritty, delightfully wicked, fucking unstoppable and age just don’t matter Muthafucka (Bettye’s favorite word.) Plus some of her titles are right out of my life: “I Got My Own Hell to Raise” — “Not Gonna Happen Twice” — sing it, sister. Her ups and downs in the music industry are the stuff of legend. She calls this her “Buzzard luck” — but is riding high now with countless awards and nominations in this WTF year alone. The stamina and stick-to-it-iveness are more Classic GB. I got to ask her everything. And Muthafucka, she answered — no holds barred. Get ready for your new favorite singer — the incomparable Glorious Broad Bettye LaVette …

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Songstress and Song Interpreter — Nonpareil

GLORIOUS PERSONA: The Epitome of R&B. No Bullshit

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Profoundly Profane, Wickedly Funny, Endlessly Tenacious,
Funky and Sophisticated

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“I’m not trying to be cute at this point. I’m trying to be legendary and REALLY good”

TODAY YOU HAVE MEGA SUCCESS — AFTER SO MANY UPS AND DOWNS. DO YOU FEEL REVENGE — ESPECIALLY WITH MOTOWN WHO DISSED YOU FOR YEARS? OR ARE YOU ZEN CHILL?

NOOOOO Girrrrlllll — ARE YOU JOKING!!!???

In my glasses, I pretty much look the way I did the last time Motown saw me … I sound better than ever. And I can wear a size six! So YES, revenge. YESSSSSSS. Absofuckinlutely!

OMG
You know Motown made the stupid mistake — you know I’m from Detroit …

OH I KNOW.
And I was suffering there, surrounded by people I started out with who became multi-fuckin-millionaires. Smokey Robinson lived across the alley. Ok? I’d be sitting at lunch with Martha Reeves and have everybody rush over to ask for her autograph — and not even look at me. So Motown — bless their hearts …

HARD!!!
And I've seen them all naked, drunk, broke — or all three. And Motown was having their annual Heroes and Legends Awards, and in 2010, they were giving me the Outstanding Achievement Award. Whaaaa? I don't know why they didn't think I’d  be revengeful. My poor husband during my speech — he kept sliding farther and farther under the table as I went around the room — calling every one of them out. The Temptations took me on the road with them for several gigs. But they are the only people that lifted a finger to help me — and I was not nothin’. I was already in show business and had a national best-selling record. And other than Marv Johnson, Mary Wells and the Temptations — NOTHIN’. I had drug dealers I knew from high school who became rich and would leave me some joints and money to get me by … trying to help me hold on.

OOOOO. YOU ARE NO ONE TO BE TRIFLED WITH, WOMAN …
But I’m having a wonderful time with my success. FINALLY… (Laughs wickedly)

AND YOU'RE FAME AS WELL ….
So I've been doing this little online radio show on Friday nights …

And I told my producer — well — I don't think we'll be able to talk to anybody from Motown … (Laughs)

WHY DIDN'T IT CLICK WITH YOU AND MOTOWN BACK THEN?
I came up with 90 million conclusions and we couldn’t put our finger on it. Everybody kept saying, “I love her voice.” Maybe I didn’t have enough of a “girl voice” for Berry Gordy? It’s been called more of a combination of James Brown and Wilson Picket …

HELLUVA COMBO...
Hell yeah. But very different from Diana Ross …

SO WHAT CAME NEXT?
So many starts and stops. I had my hit — “My Man” — at 16. It was all, “She's gonna be the young wonder.” And I recorded “Let Me Down Easy.” And that was going to be the rhythm and blues song of the century. I got in “Bubbling Brown Sugar” the Broadway smash from '76, it was like, oh, wow, this is going to be IT – but more nothin’. Every time one of those situations fell apart. I quit. But then, somebody would call … I call this now my fifth career.

Sportin’ the mini and flush with her first success — “My Man”

YOUR DRIVE IS SO DAMN INSPIRING — ALL THOSE DECADES. I SAW YOU IN FORBE’S “50 OVER 50” …. IN THE COMPANY OF NANCY PELOSI AND KAMALA HARRIS … WOE.
Well, this time around, over 70, things have been very, very substantial. It feels different.

I have a million fans now but I collected them 10,000 at a time over 60 years. (Laughs.) I used to travel all over the world — I'd hear the Supremes or Barbra Streisand in the elevator and say: Nobody's ever gonna know me. I am never gonna make any money.  I'm going to die broke and obscure. Now I say I’m just gonna die broke — not obscure.

THIS YEAR ALONE YOU WERE INDUCTED INTO THE BLUES HALL OF FAME, BEST SOUL BLUES FEMALE ARTIST FROM THE BLUES MUSIC AWARDS, MOST OUTSTANDING BLUES SINGER FOR LIVING BLUES MAGAZINE CRITIC’S POLL. AND YOUR SIXTH GRAMMY NOMINATION FOR BEST CONTEMPORARY BLUES ALBUM.
Can you believe — one of the best years of my life and I'm living right here stuck in my fuckin’ living room …. (Laughs)

HELLOOOO. COVID IS STEALING YOUR THUNDER!
Yeah! Extremely frustrating because I have waited so long for this. I don't know how much more time I've got. But getting to participate in all of these things — even from home — has made my day a little different from my neighbors. (Chuckles)

WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU GOT THIS RESILIENT, BAD-ASS ATTITUDE FROM?
I was born with it  — my MOTHER built it into me. Literally. I’ve been drinking my entire life ‘cause my mother never stopped drinking — or fighting — I’m lucky she never smoked! She wanted me to be Bettye La Vette.

“These junior people that I’m losing these Grammys to — my great wish is to run into them drunk one night in a little bar in Manhattan — with just a piano. No beats.”

WAS SHE THRILLED TO SEE YOU GET THAT SINGLE AT 16?
I was the first person in my family who had ever done anything! In school or out of school.

YOU’VE PLAYED WITH EVERYBODY. WHO’S YOUR FAVORITE?
Every time I'd come back — the people are different. And I’m older. The first time I went on the road was with Benny King. Just weeks before I had been at my teen hangout spot, Mr. Jerrys — across the street from school, dancing to The Drifters…

So I was, theoretically, a groupie on the road. I mean, every time those people would open their dressing rooms, I was standing there. (Laughs)

Then a little later, Otis Redding was playing in Detroit. He and I were the new kids on the block. And we became romantically enamored. I go on tour — and when I came back — BING— Otis was huge. Most of these people got to be bigger than me. So I never got a chance to spend a lot of time with them.

WELL YOU KNOW THEM ALL ...
One person who is definitely not my favorite is James Brown. (Laughs) He barred me from singing “Let Me Down Easy” while we were on the road together — ‘cause it got too much applause … I was ready to challenge him but was barred.

THAT’S THE WAY HE RAN HIS SHIP?
Everyone around James was afraid of him. I wasn’t.

WHAT WAS YOUR HARDEST TIME?
Any time I would have to come back to Detroit after something had fallen through — and everything had changed. Club owners were babies — they didn’t know who I was — then somebody would tell them and they were like — oh yeah — I think I remember you. And I’d have to start all over again …

“I would never want to be young again as long as I live.”

AND HOW ABOUT HAPPINESS? HAS THAT CHANGED?
It used to be a limited amount of things — like looking out at an audience. But now I look at my daughter and my grandchildren and that makes me happy. And my husband Kevin Kiley — who loves me to the point that he gets on my nerves. I mean you wake up in the morning to a hangover and this guy is singing a love song or listening to music (Laughs.) If you hear me listening to music in the morning — I’ve gotta gig I’m getting ready for.

WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT KEVIN. HE'S YOUR HUSBAND AND YOUR MANAGER  — AND SEXY AND YOUNGER. YESSSS! YOU MET HIM LATER IN LIFE, RIGHT?
I met him on the internet baby! And yes — he pretty much took on a senior citizen. Now if we argue about anything I say: Hey, when we met, I was old and drunk. And nothing has changed. (Laughs) We’ve been together for 18 years…

OH THAT’S A STORY GBs NEED TO HEAR …
Some adult must have sent him my music. So he sent me an email saying he was a fan and had heard that someone who shall remain nameless was going to produce my next record. He pleaded with me: Don't do that. You don’t want to work with him.

I sent him a message back. First. Who the fuck are you?

I LOVE YOU.
And second: Do you have any money to take me into the studio? Do you know how badly I need a record and how long it's been? Sit down somewhere and shut up.

OH GIRL.
He apologized, said he was a record and antique dealer. He was coming to Detroit — wanted to take me out for dinner. When he opened the door he said: “You’re little.” Hahaha…

WITH THAT BIG VOICE ...
He came back for more shows and more shows and … brought me this beautiful antique diamond sapphire engagement ring.

BUT HOW’D HE GET TO BE YOUR MANAGER?
He’s a music historian. He makes deals quickly. He loves the people. I am not particularly fond of people in showbiz. We all talk about the same thing … ourselves.

IS THERE AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING YOU HAD TO LEARN THE HARD WAY?
There’s a song Tony Joe White wrote and its called “Everything I Learned I Learned the Hard Way.” That sums it up.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO OVER AGAIN IF YOU COULD?
Hmmm. The opportunities that I’ve been given — that I blew. Like the first time I was really with some juicy people. Lots of money. Lots of connections. They asked me what TV show did I want to be on. And I said Shindig. Cause that’s what I knew! Should have been Ed Sullvian …

And now the ‘Fro: Chasing the dream in the 70’s

Or the first time I came to NY I decided to dump Atlantic Records. I mean: I told the big deal Jerry Wexler — who went on to produce Aretha’s first single — to get lost! Wha? I didn’t know enough about the record industry to dump anyone — never mind Atlantic! I thought I’d just go and sign with somebody else…

AH, YOUTH… DID YOU FIND A MENTOR?
Jim Lewis, my friend, my manager, who I dedicated my book to.  

He made me sing songs that intimidated me at first. He pushed me. He pushed me hard. He’s passed away now, but he instilled everything in me that I needed.

IT MUST HAVE BEEN TOUGH TO GET THE CRITICISM. BUT YOU HELD WITH IT. THAT'S WHAT I LOVE.
Well, it was because ... he wasn't a father figure, so i could cuss right back at him. He can say: ‘I think you’re stupid” and I can say; “Fuck you — you're old.”

We’d do the rounds. I saw everybody who came to Detroit. No matter how big the venue was — I was with him. I got in. He always told me when you go to the door and they don’t know who you are — you ain’t.

WHEN THE TWO OF YOU WENT TO SEE THE GLORIOUS BIG MAYBELLE — YOU WERE SHOWING OFF YOUR 2 INCH WAIST. SHE GOT UP — ALL FLOPPY SLOPPY  — AND SANG THE PAINT OFF THE WALLS. HUMBLING!
She just literally wiped the floor up with me. Yeah, she sorted me out.

YOU'VE BEEN NOMINATED FOR GRAMMY’S — SIX TIMES — WHY HAVEN'T THEY RECOGNIZED YOUR SUPERIORITY ALREADY??!!
These Junior people that I'm losing these Grammys to — my great wish is to run into them drunk one night in a little bar in Manhattan — with just a piano. No beats. A real song — not one that you go back and repeat the verse 50 times. A real song that takes you somewhere …

SO YOU WANNA PULL A BIG MAYBELLE?
Exactly!

ANY YOUNG SINGERS YOU ADMIRE? WHAT ABOUT BEYONCÉ?
I really love her — as a singer I am not that enamored. I'm not that enamored with many of them. But Beyoncé’s work ethic — and the way that she and Jay-Z have gone on to become grown adult people. But in terms of singers, I am loving Jill Scott …

SHE’S GOOOOD.
I like her approach. And I like the attention she's giving to it. I know it’s just gonna get better — I can hear her voice in 20 years.

AND DO YOU FEEL THAT WAY ABOUT YOUR VOICE?
Oh it's gotten better … so much better now than my first hit “My Man.” (Laughs)

AND YOU’RE A GYM RAT? I LOVED WHEN YOU SAID ABOUT 20 YEARS AGO, WHEN THEY START CALLING AGAIN — I’M GONNA LOOK GOOOOOD …
Every day I’m at it. I certainly don't work out like Beyoncé or Justin Bieber, but I'm not trying to be cute at this point. I'm trying to be legendary and really good.  

AND YOU HAVE TO KEEP THAT STOMACH STRONG …
Stomach and back muscles strong to sustain notes. You’ve got to breathe correctly. Now Aretha smoked most of her life. And then she gained that weight, lost her stomach muscles. Her voice is sharper and higher than mine, but it was hard to hold those notes.

Awhile back I was losing my voice during performances. They took me to a psychiatrist. And then to a voice specialist. And he said: “Shut up and go to bed.” (Laughs)

I was out every night. I wanted everybody to see me, to hear me. So I just started shutting up and going to bed after a show. Greatest advice I ever got.

“I do whatever I want with whomever
I wanted. Men have no inhibition.
Why should I?”

HOW ABOUT SOME 1 OR 2 LINE ANSWERS TO A FEW THINGS:
You see I’m a woman of a few words. (Laughs)

AGE.
I would never want to be young again as long as I live.

R&B.
I’m the epitome of R&B.

SEX.
Do it as long as you can.

THEN LET’S TALK SEX AND GETTING’ SOME. I LOVE THAT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO APOLOGIES ABOUT YOU AND YOUR VORACIOUS SEX LIFE …
I was raised Catholic — you know how depraved and deprived they are. But I've never seen anything wrong with sex.

YES. YES, YES. YES. YES. (We’re laughing)

AND I ALSO LOVE THAT YOU SAID MEN HAVE NO INHIBITION. WHY SHOULD I?
I do whatever I want with whomever I wanted.

Especially in show biz! The most gorgeous men in the world. Getting panties thrown at them. And they’re in the dressing room next to mine. Knock Knock. (Laughs.)

Now, I’m all loved up. It’s a different thing … but I will never ever let go of sex in my life.

SPEAKING OF HOT: GIVE ME THE HIGHLIGHTS OF YOUR CAREER! THE KENNEDY CENTER?
I call it my Three Stooges slap. I walked out on the stage and to my right was Beyoncé. In the middle was Aretha.

WOW.
Up above her was Barbra Streisand.
And Pete Townsend sitting next to her crying over my interpretation of his song, Love Reign O’er Me.

OH I SAW THE VIDEO …
It was one of the greatest days of my life. December 18, 2008

YOU SLAYED! AND THEN THE HOLLYWOOD BOWL STAGE WITH A 32-PIECE BAND.
Oh, yes. You know, when I went into rehearsal, we’re finishing a tune, and I was crying. And the musicians were like — what — was it bad? I said, look, I live walking distance from here, and never came to The Hollywood Bowl before. To hear 32 strings behind me, playing my arrangement, to my song — It is quite overwhelming. And I was not ashamed to share that with them. They all applauded.

WHAT'S YOUR LEGACY?
Being a song interpreter.

WHAT’S NEXT FOR YOU, BETTYE — WHEN WE CAN ALL START TO MOVE AROUND AGAIN?
I want to be able to do what I wish. I’m not a road dog anymore. That road will beat you up. But I am really lookin’ forward to that whole Ray Charles career next. My audience is starting to change. I’m getting as many Whites as Blacks, more Latinos and Asians. I want everybody everywhere to know who I am. I want them to pay larger amounts to see me.

I THINK AGING GRACEFULLY IS BULLSHIT. I WANT TO ROAR. HOW ABOUT YOU?
I just want to be able to drink my champagne and smoke joints with my daughter and grandchildren — they are old enough now — and we can work out all of the problems of the entire world.

DO YOU THINK THE CORE OF YOU HAS CHANGED SINCE YOU WERE 30-40-50-60?
I’m the same person. I was  an absolute diamond in the rough. And I mean really rough.

YOU ARE SUCH A GLORIOUS BROAD. WHAT DOES GLORIOUS MEAN TO YOU?
Ooooooo. Glorious brings religion back to me. I’m a Bad Ass Broad.

AMEN!

If you haven't already made a plan to buy Bettye's book, “A Woman Like Me” — and check out her latest album Blackbirds please check your pulse. And follow our R&B queen on FB @Bettye LaVette IG @bettyelavette — twitter @bettye lavette and website bettyelavette.com/

Glorious Broad #21: Alexandra Fine

Pleasure Guru plus one …

And this Broad/Dame knows fun

PHOTOS: CHRISTOPHER SCALZI / DISTILLED STUDIOS

I love when you meet a YOUNG Glorious Broad — and the way it challenges — actually — the way it TRASHES your “AGE IS THE WISEST OF ALL THINGS” — because sometimes — like in the case of this Broad, Alex Fine, the CEO and founder of Dame — age don’t matter!

I met her when she was 7 ¾ months pregnant — the sex guru — preggers — and about to begin a whole new sexual journey — and it’s begun — just brought her baby into the world.

If you don’t know about Dame, curl yourself up and dig in — you’ll learn plenty …. Sex (and toys). Feminism. Tutorials. And FUNNY. Closing the pleasure gap is their mission. We’ve got other agents working on income equality and just basic human RESPECT FOR FUCKS SAKE. We’re glad Alex is monitoring the orgasm index.

And if all THAT doesn’t raise your GB eyebrows, get a load of her lawsuit against  the MTA. Think it’s A-OK to see erectile dysfunction ads on every other subway car but a big NOPE for displaying Dame’s pleasure ad campaigns?! Flagrant bullshit double standard, and Alex is standing up to it. Welcome to the Glorious Broad Tribe, Alex!

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Sex Guru and Pleasure Innovator

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Entrepreneurial, Scrappy, Standing up to the (Wo)Man (and the MTA)

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Wise, Introspective, Sex Positive — and Hilarious

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“There is surviving and then there is thriving ... Erotic energy is thriving..”

SO ON GLORIOUS BROADS, YOU ARE THE BROAD BETWEEN KATHLEEN TURNER — JESSICA RABBIT? (BLANK LOOK) — AND THEN BETTYE LA VETTE, THE R&B SOUL QUEEN?
Ooops. Blank.

OUCH. OK: ONWARD … LOOK ‘EM UP GRRRLLL

I AM IN LOVE WITH DAME. PERIOD. DONE. AND YOUR POM VIBRATOR — MINDBLOWING.
Oh yeah... (laughs) The Pom’s super.

BUT I LOVE THE TAG LINE “CLOSING THE PLEASURE GAP” WAS THAT YOURS? SAYS EVERYTHING …
I’m not sure who first really said it out loud. But there was so much conversation about closing the wage gap. And the confidence gap. We thought — what about pleasure? Do we even think about pleasure? We should …

WELL, I'M LOVING THE TONE OF YOUR SITE — FEMINIST, FUNNY, AND I LEARN STUFF FROM YOUR SIDEBARS AND MINI TUTORIALS …
We can be feminists but silly and fun. Ya know?

YEAH WE CAN!

OK, GIMME YOUR ONE LINE PHILOSOPHY ON THE FOLLOWING:

AGE.
It’s an illusion.
But it's real too …

SEX.
It’s an illusion. (We laugh)
No — It’s a vital part of our well-being.

FEMINISM.
Feminism … It's for everyone.

OH I LOVE YOU.

ENTER GIRLBOSS

YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO APOLOGIES FOR YOUR AMBITION — AND IT’S SO BIG.
WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?
Trauma.
(We laugh)
I think it is a little bit of trauma and a chip on my shoulder.

OOOH – DO TELL.
Well — I have to remind myself that I AM successful already.

Because I forget. I don't feel successful often. I feel like I need to be bigger. I need to do more, make more money, more revenue, more accolades.

I'm not always proud of this. And I’m always trying to find the balance.

It’s patriarchy! That “MORE” mindset is not healthy and isn't always good. I can be a little insatiable. In the bedroom. In the boardroom. Like a lush …

YEAH, ME TOO …
I like to do things hard if I'm going to do them. There's a little bit of me that just likes it loud and big. I do wonder if it's like a desire to prove something — to my dad. (We laugh)

MENTOR CORNER

WELL, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GETTING TO — WHO DO YOU THINK SHAPED YOU?
My dad

DADS AGAIN …
And my mom. And all my grandparents.

My grandmother on my mom's side is a Holocaust survivor. And on my dad's side, they were both orphans. All impoverished at some point.

So — on the flip side, I was raised with a ton of privilege. And the constant reminder … it could go.
So it was a little like — “You just went to Columbia, and you're gonna make fucking vibrators??!!”

SO. YOUR MOM WOULD RATHER YOU BE A DENTIST THAN HELP YOUR SISTERS COME? HA!

LET’S TALK SEX! MY 30-YR OLD SELF HAD A HUGE SEXUAL WAKE-UP FROM THE QUEEN BETTY DODSON, WHO I'M SURE YOU KNOW. BUT WHO IN YOUR GENERATION FORMED YOU?
Honesty, similar people. Like Dr. Ruth!

DR. RUTH. WOW!

Love her. AND I remember watching Talk Sex with Sue Johanson — around early 2000’s. And it feels like there was nobody in media until Esther Perel …

NOW THAT’S A LONG TIME …

And Dr. Ruth, by the way, is 93 — and also a Holocaust survivor.

And Esther Perel is the daughter of Holocaust survivors. Interesting …

THE TRAUMA-PLEASURE LINK…

I love that Esther Perel talks all the time about thriving. There is surviving and then there is thriving, and understanding the difference. Erotic energy is thriving.

“I can be a little insatiable. Like a lush”

DEEP. WHO ELSE IS ON YOUR MENTOR LIST?
Esther Perel. Dr. Bat Sheva Marcus, who wrote Sex Points. Dr. Lori Brotto, — and Dr. Laurie Mintz — who wrote Becoming Cliterate. Amazing. Call her.

Dan Savage — I think he's super rad. And he has real cultural clout. But these researchers and therapists? Not so much…

AND GWYNETH PALTROW??? AND HER PUSSY SCENTED CANDLE?
Honestly, I mean, there's a part of me that’s jealous. OK? It can be a little frustrating to see somebody with so much buzz doing some of the things you've been doing for a while and get so much more attention. But if I sit with it, and I'm— well, my higher self — it's fucking dope.

I DON’T KNOW ABOUT THE VAGINA SMELLING CANDLES. …. BUT IT WAS GREAT TO SEE THAT SEX SHOW WITH BETTY DODSON
She brought Betty Dodson on to Netflix!!! I mean…

SO HERE YOU ARE A YOUNG WOMAN AND INFLUENCER — YOU HAVE BEEN A BIG PART OF THIS CULTURAL SHIFT FOR YOUR GENERATION — SEX, PLEASURE, FEMINIST, GENDER …
See this is the thing, No, I don't necessarily feel that way. I'm part of this trend, this wave. But I'm starting to be less surprised when I tell people what I do — and then they say: “Oh, I own your product.” I'm like — no way!

BUT IT’S HAPPENING — AND KEEPS HAPPENING …
Yes! So …

“Feminism … It’s for everyone ”

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY HAS BEEN THE BIGGEST RISK YOU'VE TAKEN AT THIS POINT? THAT BABY?
I'll go with suing the MTA over the flagrant double standard — NOT displaying Dame’s pleasure ad campaigns?! When graphic erectile disfunction ads are on every train and bus in this town. Big stuff. I’ve had people (like big people) say: Why are you getting involved in an expensive lawsuit?

YEAH. I FOLLOWED THAT CASE. IT WAS EVERYWHERE. IT’S BULLSHIT. THANK YOU.
Well, it's really worth it. Both in getting the press attention, but also it felt so right to make this stand — making an impact — changing some people's minds. So that's pretty cool.

GOOD VIBRATIONS

SO HOW DO YOU DREAM UP AND DESIGN A NEW SEX TOY? SUCH A JUICY JOB (SORRY READER) Well, sometimes we make a product we know exists — We don’t always have to reinvent the wheel. Like Arc, our internal vibrator. Using our survey — our Dame Lab — those lucky people with vulvas who signed up to test and give feedback — we were able to identify that the internal toys could be much better externally (over 90% users use the toy that way) — so we optimized for that — as well as internal pressure. Its designed well for both. And we got a hit!

HOW BIG IS THE TEAM?
Around 20 awesome people

WHILE I LOVE THE SITE — I’M NOT SEEING MUCH AGE DIVERSITY GURRLLLL — WE’RE SEXY!!!
Oh fuck. I want to see us do that more. We have trans people, color diversity, size diversity —… And it’s just wild ‘cause we sit around and talk about inclusion all the fucking time. Most of the models on our site have been friends of friends by the way…

WELL, I’M AVAILABLE.
That would be awesome.
We seem to need that age reminder.

YOU AND THE REST OF THE WORLD DARLING …

SPEAKIN OF WHICH…

HORNY AT ANY AGE

IT IS AMAZING TO ME THAT I'M SOMEHOW 70 AND I’M AS SEXUAL AS I EVER WAS. WHO KNEW. CAN YOU IMAGINE YOU — SEX GURU THAT YOU ARE — YOUR SEX LIFE AT 70s, 80s AND … OR IS IT ALL TOO FAR AWAY?
I can imagine it. I actually think the part that trips me up — sorry, husband but — will it still be my husband? How to keep all that stuff spicy …

And then I imagine my body in different stages, and feeling sexy in it.

I THINK THAT’S CALLED LIFE
Yes. That's life. I've also decided that trying to convince myself all the time that I have to love every inch of my body Is equally as harmful as when I just didn't like it.

SO — HOW DO YOU MANAGE TO DO IT ALL?

Well, I don’t. I’m learning. The bigger we get — the more I realize I need to take breaks. I have to. I can get frustrated — there was a campaign that somebody in the company put together. I didn’t like it. I felt it in my body. Why would you even show me this? Then I start attacking myself: I’m a bad person for being so critical …

WOMEN …
(We laugh) But what I am saying is: I am trying to take a second now. No. It’s okay. Why do I feel this way? So that’s how I do it all: By just constantly focusing on expressing my needs. Clearly.

EVERYTHING …
I read these quotes, like Elon Musk – if you want to be successful, you need to work twice as many hours as everybody else. Because if you just work twice as many hours, you're just twice as likely to succeed. Then what the fuck is success? I just really struggled to buy into that. I think that if you actually don't work all the damn time — and take a little bit longer to figure out what success is for you…

That being said, I’m gonna make a lot of money.

(We laugh)

“I’m a sex guru — and if sex isn’t important to me right now — WHO AM I? ”

HOW’D YOU AND YOUR HUBBY DO WITH COVID?
You know the book: Esther Perel’s Mating in Captivity.

LOVE
When you take animals and you cage them up, they do not have sex. My husband and I weren't fighting. Actually, I almost wish we were fighting more —  that would have been hotter. We were just peace and cozy. I had a moment where I really felt like he was my brother. That's not fine. You’re laughing…

HEY! I HAD THE OPPOSITE. WE WERE TWO CAGED ANIMALS WHO FOUND OUT WE COULDN’T BEAR TO LIVE TOGETHER. BYE BYE!
Yep. Covid did that … And now we are out and about and other women are reminding me of how hot and funny and sexy my partner is. That was so helpful…

BUT NOW THIS WHOLE NEW CHAPTER IN SEX — IN LIFE — IN INTIMACY — THE BABY!
I think it's gonna be really hard when we have a kid together. I thought my mom and dad were brother and sister. Like, I didn't understand that they chose each other for a long time. (We laugh)

THERE’S ALWAYS DATE NIGHT!
It can create anxiety because you're like, alright, we need to like CONNECT. Something I've really been learning — especially through my pregnancy is — sex takes me on this emotional journey — I cry!

SO MANY HORMONES!
Totally. I’m also thinking like, what if I can't find sex the way I used to have sex? When are we gonna fuck again? You know, like … FUCK

WELL, YOU MAY NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT SEX FOR A WHILE. YOU KNOW, THAT BABY IS GONNA TAKE UP ALL THAT LOVE UP AT FIRST.
And I think for me when I don't give a shit about sex, I just need to be okay with that. Yes, I'm a sex guru and yes, sex isn't important to me right now. WHO AM I?

GETTING SAGE

LET’S GO BACK IN TIME SHALL WE? IF YOU HAD A MESSAGE TO YOUR YOUNGER SELF, WHAT WOULD IT BE?
You are amazing, and you're doing it right. Like you should do it more. I definitely think specifically, like, when I was slut shamed … in 7th grade!

TELL.
I felt so much regret. I was like… oh I wish I hadn't done it. There’s a whole diary entry: I'm not going to kiss any boys ever again, only if we're boyfriend and girlfriend… I want to look at the 13 year-old me and say: You go kiss all the fucking boys you want to kiss, and all the girls you want to kiss! Don't let what other people think matter.

And I love the power of my sexuality.

IT IS POWER. YES.
SOOOO powerful. I think that's kind of part of the problem. It’s like your first power when growing up

DO YOU HAVE A MESSAGE FOR OTHER YOUNG WOMEN
My message would be for younger women or trans or non binary or…

ANYBODY WHO CONSIDERS THEMSELVES A BROAD.
YES I love that.
Nobody knows what they're doing.

AH, GREAT. THAT'S GREAT.
Now I want to tell my kid — everybody's figuring it out. So you're good. You're figuring it out too.

WELL, I JUST LOVE YOU …. YOU GLORIOUS BROAD!

Go get yourself a new vibrator at Dameproducts.com — and check out Alex at @afinehuman - ‘cause she is one …

 -

Glorious Broad #20: Kathleen Turner

Loved her for forever? Us too.

I have a thing for Kathleen Turner. I own that. But when I saw her as the man-eating Martha in “Whose Afraid of Virgina Wolf” on Broadway in 2005 — I was officially obsessed. Knowing her past STEAMY status — knowing the tough in-between phase — watchin’ her knock our socks off on the stage so many decades later — erasing any other Martha before her — even Ben Brantley apologized to her in print for his earlier belittling expectations. Yeah — that good.

A few months ago, I was listening to one of my bestie podcasts called “She’s a Talker” — Neil Goldberg chatting hilariously with Kathleen. She was game, smart and FUNNY.  I thought: Why not go to the top. Our policy has been no celebrities. But Kathleen — she is beyond celebrity into just damn Glorious Broad Kingdom.

A little education for you young-uns: Think legend. She is the steamy, sultry voice of Jessica Rabbit to some, THE sex bomb sultry murderer in “Body Heat,” scary “Serial Mom”, psycho wife in “War of the Roses” … there are so many. Countless awards and nominations. And now she is coming back to Season 3 with Michael Douglas in “The Kominsky Method” playing — what else — a baaaaaaaad broad: “It will always be much more fun to play the bad girl.” Yes, we see Kathleen.

Blunt, steely, witty and a sheer life force, we introduce Glorious Broad Kathleen Turner. Grab a martini for this one.

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Actor. Period.

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Not Taking Any Shit

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Determined, Hilarious, Triumphant, Sexy and THAT VOICE

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“It will always be much more fun to play the bad girl”

YOU ARE SOME KINDA GLORIOUS BROAD … AND HERE YOU ARE!
Well, what brought me in was the name “Glorious Broads.” Me and my poker buddies — some of whom I have known for over 30 years — have been calling each other Broads for forever. Me and my theatre buddies — my family — we all call each other Broads. And the Glorious is a great touch by the by …

HEARING YOU ON THE “SHE’S A TALKER” PODCAST SLAYED ME. YOU ARE FUNNY!
I am funny! I favor the twisted funny. From John Water’s “Serial Mom” to — what’s comin’ up again… a return to “War of the Roses” — kind of — and that was really twisted …

YOU MEAN “THE KOMINSKY METHOD.” YOUR ONE EPISODE APPEARANCE ON SEASON 2 WAS PERFECT: WHEN YOU GOT THE CALL FROM “ASSHOLE” EX HUSBAND … HAHAHA … I RELATED!
Boy did we have fun. That Michael Douglas! He doesn’t change … and let’s just say – the war between that couple continues. I know him so well. I asked: “Would you marry me again?” (ummm, for those who don’t know the movie — they kill each other in “War”) He looked at me dumbfounded — I had to assure him “I’m just fucking with you”…

DID YOU KNOW AT 16 THAT YOU WOULD BECOME THE GLORIOUS BROAD THAT YOU ARE TODAY?
I have to say, I envisioned the life I lead. Except for the Rheumatoid Arthritis part and some, ahem, challenges in-between — but I saw myself on stage. I saw myself as a star. And, to be specific, the twenty-year-old me saw herself on stage — playing Martha from “Whose Afraid of Virgina Wolf” when I turned 50. And I was 50 when I landed that role. So, yeah, I did.

WHAT GAVE YOU THE CHUTZPAH TO HAVE THIS VISION — AND MAKE IT A REALITY?
I didn’t have a “normal” childhood. Dad was in foreign service so we traveled and lived everywhere, learned languages. Years in Cuba, Venezuela, high school in London. And then I blasted out of Southwest Missouri State after graduation to go after my dream.

“I have confidence in my work. But personal? Not so much.”

I SAW YOU AS THE LIFE-FORCE MARTHA IN “WHOSE AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOLF” WITH MY 23 YEAR-OLD NEPHEW. YOU TOOK MY BREATH AWAY. AND MY GOB-SMACKED NEPHEW: ALL HE COULD SAY WAS, "MARTHA’S SO SEXY!"
(Laughs) Even at 20, I saw a humor in that role — something I haven’t seen in any of the productions. I knew I could do that. Ambitious, intelligent, brawling Martha saw no future for herself except as a professor’s wife hosting University cocktail parties — aaahhhh —that’s the RAGE. So — empathy and admiration and all in your face sexuality — and the booze. So much booze.

SO DO YOU HAVE THAT CONFIDENCE IN EVERYTHING?
When it comes to the work, yes. Even at 20. Personal? Not so much.

But on stage? I just light up. That is where I get my life force — and at any age.

SO MANY OF YOUR ROLES ARE ABOUT SEX, AGE, AND POWER … FROM “BODY HEAT” TO … WELL, YOU’RE STILL DOIN’ IT!
Sex and age is so interesting. When I took on Mattie in “Body Heat,” the director, Larry Kasdon, asked me my age. 25 about to be 26. He nearly passed out. "You need to be hittin’ 30 — we need the age!" He was sure that someone so young wouldn't have that kind of sexual confidence.

You know how it is when you know you are really sexy? When I feel great about myself and walk into a room — if a man doesn’t look at me, he’s either dead or gay.

If you feel sexy, you are.

And now, baby, I still project sexuality and attractiveness with the toss of my head or the confidence in my eyes. And, of course, my voice. I love that.

“Once, being seen as a sex icon was like a millstone. Now, it’s the icing on the cake, to be savored down to the last lick”

— "Send Yourself Roses" by Kathleen Turner

LET’S TALK ABOUT THAT VOICE
What does it matter what you look like if people cringe when you open your mouth? Voice is power. My voice has taken on a persona of its own. I was not born to be an ingenue.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO LEAVE BEHIND THE SEX BOMB — AND HOLLYWOOD — AND MAKE THE TRANSITION THROUGH ILLNESS.
You know, when all that was happening, every single day was tough. Each day. I didn’t have the strength at that time to do anything — I was too busy trying to hold a fucking pen — walk across the room — to care about the shit people were saying. And they were sayin’ it…

BUT HOW’D YOU WORK THROUGH THAT PAIN — AND THEN READ THE CRAP PEOPLE WERE SAYING?
Who would I be if I didn’t work? Yes, I was a mother. I had a family. But I had to work. It is who I am. And now, I’m loving teaching. And this last season, through all this COVID shit, and working on zoom, not being able to use our whole bodies — I still love it. But boy have I missed being in a room.  The name is “Practical Acting.” I am so against the method. I can’t tell you. Shut up and do it! (laughing)

Reunited and it feels so good — Kathleen and Michael together again

DO YOU FEEL YOU WERE ROBBED OF YOUR MID-LIFE CAREER WITH HOLLYWOOD BIGWIGS DECIDING YOU WERE NO LONGER A LEADING LADY — AND ENDURING YOUR ILLNESS?
It was tough. It was. But what could I do. I had always planned to go back to Broadway — but all this escalated that return.

Understand, Rheumatoid Arthritis hit me in my late 30s, and the hardest part was so much of my confidence was based on my physicality. But I fuckin’ got my confidence back.

When I returned in “The Graduate” and my famous 20 second nude scene that got so much attention — I had to get it up for that scene  — let me tell you. Full houses. Lousy reviews. No nominations. But then Martha in Virginia Wolf —  and those reviews … each night was magic. Ben Brantley apologized in print for his earlier expectations. Double magic.

AND WHAT DO YOU SAY WHEN PEOPLE COMMENT ON YOUR LOOKS …
When someone says to me — and they do — you don’t look like you did 30 years ago. I always like to say: NEITHER DO YOU. (laughs) — I mean, there are people out there who can look exactly like they do 30 years ago ‚ but I would rather have a life thankyouverymuch.

So it’s a real fuck you going on for me — FUCK YOU.

THEATER VERSUS MOVIES?
Theater. No comparison.

WHY NEW YORK?
I am a New Yorker. I knew immediately. Had I stayed in LA, I’d be really wealthy. But what do I want now? Another house? Why? I don’t need that. Its all about the next role …

“When someone says to me — and they do — you don’t look like you did 30 years ago. I always like to say: Neither do you”

WHO DO YOU WANT TO BE WHEN YOU GROW UP?
I don’t know that I want to BE her but oh do I admire Maggie Smith.. I’ve been in the business for 44 years – and Maggie has 20 years ahead of me. There is never a sell-by-date. No No No.

DREAM ROLE?
I’ve had Lear on my mind for a while. I cannot wait to get back on stage … and Amanda, the mother, from “The Glass Menagerie” — I’m willing to do it in Australia. I saw Cherry Jones do it here— and I could never compare to that. But I would do it somewhere far far far away (laughs)

GIVE ME YOUR ONE LINE PHILOSOPHY ON THE FOLLOWING:
SEX
It’s just not interesting to me anymore. Point is. I don’t care.

AGE
I face a battle each day. But. Appreciation. Yes. Appreciation.

COVID
A tough year. 
But I’ve been here with my butch black cat. She understands me.

WHAT DOES GLORIOUS MEAN TO YOU?
Rosalind Russell in “MAME.” She doesn’t have to say FUCK YOU — she is FUCK YOU.

WHAT DOES SUCCESS MEAN TO YOU NOW?
When my poker broads come over — and I can buy caviar for the whole crew. We just had our first game since this whole thing started.

That to me is success!

Glorious Broad #19: Ashley Longshore

DA BOMB
PHOTO: JAMES LETTEN

I got a crash course in Ashley Longshore one unforgettable day, sauntering into the usually sedate Bergdorf Goodman’s home floors. Mesmerized by the glitter, the color, the FUN of her mega art show — I recognized my kinda woman — and took a deep Ashley dive: Her book, You Don't Look Fat, You Look Crazy is a scream and an unapologetic feminist cry for AMBITCHION — her IG page — a consistent delight — her LIFE ... a force of nature. Loved her quote from last year: “I want to create my brand of private Jets” — now that’s an unapologetic bitch! But it ain't just bluster, baby, this is a woman of action who got real, soulful and open in our talk.

With a broad whose infamous for NOT refraining from her glorious opinions — let's get right to it...

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: International Phenomenon, Artist, Collector

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Font of Positivity, Quirky Queen, Love Giver

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Can you say AMBITCHOUS, Colorful in Every Possible Way, Woman of Action

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“If you want something – work for it. If you need to say something – fuckin’ say it.”


GIVE ME YOUR ONE LINE PHILOSOPHY ON THE FOLLOWING:

AGE.
Who gives a fuck?! I cant wait to be “long in the labia”

ART.
Surround yourself with art on every surface. Curate the life you want to live.

FASHION.
Fashion is a mirror to our soul — how we feel on the inside projected on the outside!

SEX. 
Get your hair snatched and bent over the kitchen counter at least once a month .... and masturbate a lot .... bump up your numbers. 

WELL ALRIGHTY! I FEEL LIKE WE MIGHT BE DONE. (we laugh)

LOVED YOUR POST ABOUT MIDNIGHT SNACKS  IN THE BUFF WHILE DANCING IN THE KITCHEN. IT JUST LOOKED SO DELICIOUS. I WAS LIKE: WHERE’S MY CHEESE?
This is why I love my life. Butt ass naked — raiding the frig for the perfect cheese, having a little cookie. Freedom. It’s the little things — right?

BUT THE BIG THINGS YOU’VE GOT DOWN! I FIRST KNEW OF YOU THROUGH YOUR KICKASS BERGDORF’S MOMENT WHEN YOU TOOK OVER — BEFORE THE WORLD CHANGED WITH COVID…
You know — you can work as hard as you want — but everybody needs a certain amount of luck. The more I put myself out there — that’s when the magic happens. It’s all about connectivity and opportunity. That Bergdorf Goodman experience was really something else. And then being in London — I did one of nine big Gucci wall art murals there. And on my way having tea with Diane Von Furstenberg.

WORSHIP!!!
My life’s incredible.

NO APOLOGIES FOR BIG AMBITION. WHERE’S THAT COME FROM?
You know what my dad says? He says “Ashley, you got a bad gene. But you figured out how to make it really marketable. And I am proud of you for that.”

And I’m like: Daddy, I got that from you

YOUR DADDY IS YOUR BRAND MAN.
Yeah. He’s awesome.

YOU ARE A SOUTHERN GIRL, RIGHT? DID YOUR MOTHER ADD TO THOSE GO-GETTER GENES 
Hell no — she did not.

“I didn’t want to be a trophy wife. I didn’t want to have to suck dick to buy a hand bag... I had to find my own way.”

YOU’RE A SELF-INVENTED GLORIOUS BROAD THEN …
For sure. I separated from my mother and I think that helped me find out what kind of woman I wanted to be. A trophy wife? Working my ass off? It’s the same way I explore things in America. Consumerism — excess — private jets – it’s a lot to contemplate. But that’s my job.

A CLICHÉ QUESTION – BUT IT IS SO GOOD WITH A BROAD LIKE YOU — WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THE YOUNGER ASHLEY.
Stop worrying!!!

A lot of people wouldn’t know that I'm a worrier and very anxious. But I learned when I was young to take that energy and turn it into work. Even when I had no money — I could go to Home Depot, buy a piece of wood for $3, paint — and this would soothe me. I wanted to create a barrier between me and the world that felt scary.

I was raised to be this sweet southern girl and I never was that. I knew I would never fit in. I didn’t want to be a trophy wife. I didn’t want to go marry some rich man and have to suck dick to buy a hand bag. I knew I didn’t want to be in corporate life — a  cubicle — I knew that I had to find my own way.

WHAT AGE DID YOU REALIZE THIS?
Mid twenties? I was fortunate to have a father who gave me a great education but also gave me the gift of having to figure out how to take care of myself.

IS THERE AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING YOU HAD TO LEARN THE HARD WAY?
Yeah. Instant gratification only gets you drunk — high — or pregnant.

OH DOO EXPLAIN …
There is so much instant gratification in being an artist — I have an idea, I paint it. As I’ve gotten older, this makes me impatient with other things. I want EVERYTHING to be that simple. Having to be patient, waiting for opportunities — understanding that this is my career and not just a moment — those are big lessons to learn.

YES. AND HARD …
Well, yeah. I’ve been doing this for like 25 years.  My true success — becoming well-known — was like fuckin’ 4 years ago.

“Instant gratification only gets you drunk, high or pregnant.”

AN OVERNIGHT SUCCESS THAT TOOK 21 YEARS?
Right.  21 years to plant the seeds, and now the fruit is starting to appear. This cycle of success — it is an interesting one.

I WAS MARRIED TO AN ARTIST AND KNOW HOW PRETENTIOUS THAT WORLD CAN BE. YOU ARE SO DIFFERENT — A BREATH OF FRESH AIR!
The artists I love, collect and make — it brings me JOY. Color. Humor. Outrageousness. This is my world.

AS A TEENAGER, DID YOU KNOW YOU'D BECOME THE GLORIOUS BROAD YOU ARE TODAY?
Yes. But I knew it was going to be hard. I dreamed of living my life the way I wanted — and again these things come with opportunity and hustle and  the daily conversation of: I CAN do this. Has it been easy? Fuck no. Is it easy now? Shit no. But. Yeah. I knew what I wanted. And I am not there yet. Dammit.

WHAT'S YOUR “NEXT?" THE BIG BRANDED JET DREAM I READ ABOUT?
Well, that was a year ago. And that type of excess feels a little ridiculous now — ya know?  Now I want to have a legacy like Peggy Guggenheim. I want to leave a huge public space full of the art I have collected that defines the art that I love.

I want to continue to inspire other artists to be able to say: I’m not just an artist — I am a business person. I can go out there and represent myself. I can do this in my own way…

AND NOT GIVE THAT 50% OVER.
Fuck that. Fuck that.

After a year like this year, you really do rethink all of the crap, jets and all that shit. There is something much more important in human connectivity. And that is what art is all about. Subjectivity, interpretation, seeing that life force and if you don’t relate to it, maybe understanding someone else’s.

I THINK THAT IS WHAT GETS US THROUGH THIS PERIOD THAT WE ARE IN … WE NEED HELP GIRL.
I mean. Look. I like euphoria. I am working on a new collection right now — giant and mod — I am ready for disco balls and the new studio 54 — I'm gonna party my ass off when this thing is over — really celebrate life, feel it on a magnitude where everything feels like a belly laugh. Unfortunately, you can't be there all the time or you’d be dead.

IF YOU COULD HAVE A GLORIOUS TRIBE TO BE ON AN ISLAND WITH — HMMM — WE ARE KIND OF LIVING THAT WAY IN NYC NOW — WHO WOULD BE ON IT? IS DIANE VON FURSTENBERG ONE OF THEM? NOW THERE IS A TIMELESS WOMAN …
Oh yeah. We have an ongoing collaboration of amazing women portraits hanging in her store. There is a whole inspiration room — I just added Kamala Harris and another RBG portrait a few weeks ago.

BEAUTIFUL.
I love Diane. She is such an advocate of other women. What I don’t like is people who think just having money is the goal — that not working is the life. Having a job and having a purpose is very glorious. And when I look at someone like Diane who was married to royalty — the fact that she has continued to have her own — she is 73 now? She is still going — dealing with her company, dealing with the pandemic. Daaaamn — such inspiration.

I have positioned myself to be surrounded by women who are smart, who are teachers, and who love other women.

AND WHAT IS NICE IS — AGE DOESN’T MATTER.
Absolutely. Absolutely.

AND EQUALLY IMPORTANT IS TO LET GO OF THE BITTER ONES. LIFE’S TOO SHORT, BABY.
Anybody not rooting for you — get them out of your life immediately.

I GATHER YOU DON’T BELIEVE IN ANY EXPIRATION DATE ON CAREER, LOVE, SEX …
That would be very pessimistic. And I am very much an optimist. So. NO.

MY MOST OUTRAGEOUS OVER THE TOP FASHIONABLE SOUL BUDDY IS 82. WHO’DATHOUGHT?

THE EXPRESSION — “AGING GRACEFULLY” — I HAVE SUCH A PROBLEM WITH IT. I WANT TO ROAR THROUGH LIFE. HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT TERM? ABOUT AGING?
I love where I am right now more than any other time. I think aging gracefully is about peace — so feels different — how about ageing graciously?

OOOOO THAT’S GOOD.
Yeah. I am grateful for the experiences that I’ve had — these lines on my face are from smiling — fuck all that ageist shit. Am I surrounded by people I love? Do I get to do what I want? Fuck yeah. That is all I give a shit about. 

LIVING NOW IS WHAT I WANT TO DWELL ON.  
Same.

WHAT DOES THE WORD GLORIOUS MEAN TO YOU? SINCE I DO THINK YOU ARE A GLORIOUS BROAD.
I think that even that word alone — g l o r I o u s — the way it rolls off of your palette — its orgasmic.

The other night I was having dinner at Cipriani downtown — outside — with 2 people I love very much. And. The world felt normal for a minute. We are sitting there — the little lights were twinkling — the temperature was nice — the heater — I felt so happy. That was  glorious.

“I’m not just an artist — I am a business person. I can go out there and represent myself. Givin’ away 50%? FUCK THAT!”

GORGEOUS. WHAT GETS YOUR JUICES FLOWING?
There is nothing I love more than traveling, meeting new artists, and collecting. I’m a beast when it comes to this. I just start walking up and down streets, looking in gallery windows — searching, hunting for that life force I’m drawn to.

HAVE YOU ALWAYS COLLECTED — OR SOON AS YOU COULD AFFORD IT?
My first painting cost me 400 dollars. And I have a good dad cause I said – Dad, I want this painting. And he said: Well, you need to figure out how to sell your own art so you can buy it. And I did.

It's now hanging in my bar in New Orleans.

YOU HAVE A BAR IN NEW ORLEANS?
In my living room. NO. I’d be dead if I had a real bar.

SO WHY NEW ORLEANS?
I love the wildness, the architecture, the spirit of the city.

AND WHEN THIS IS OVER?
I really want more — not that New Orleans isn’t enough – but as an artist I need London, Rome ... spending a few months there.

WHEN WE CAN TRAVEL AGAIN, YOU'LL SCRATCH YOUR WANDER LUST ITCH?
Look, I’ve Mardi Gras’ed a lot. Jazz Fest'ed a lot – eaten a fuckin’ ton of jambalaya, partied till 6 o’clock in the morning plenty. But. It’s a big world. I will continue to adore New Orleans but it’s time to continue to grow.

POLITICS COME INTO YOUR WORK — A LOT. BUT I WOULD THINK AS A CONTEMPORARY ARTIST, IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO ENGAGE.
True — but I turned the comments off of my social media now. I get so tired of people fighting — even if opinions are good — I gotta take my power back and just put images out there.

And regardless of what you believe — we have a black woman who is about to become the vice president!

How can you not celebrate that even if you don’t believe in her politics. My god! 

IT’S TOO DAMN OBVIOUS TO ASK YOU IF YOU ARE A FEMINIST. YOUR BOOK “YOU DON’T LOOK FAT, YOU LOOK CRAZY: AN UNAPOLOGETIC GUIDE TO BEING AMBITCHOUS” IS BEYOND DELICIOUS. AND CONTINUES TO BE NECESSARY!
My feminism is — if you want something — work for it — if you need to say something — fuckin’ say it. My feminism is not waking up every day and thinking about what opportunities I don’t have and how I may not make as much money as a male artist or get undervalued when I do corporate collaborations and the things they expect me to do for free — I don’t dwell on that. I simply try to set a new precedent. Action is my cure for everything.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS THE BIGGEST RISK YOU HAVE TAKEN IN YOUR LIFE?
The biggest risk: I take a chance on myself every day.

I always have that inner monologue. I CAN DO THIS. And its gonna be ok. And. Even if everything goes to hell in a hand basket — I can get some crayons and a piece of cardboard — and I’ll be happy.

I CAN TELL YOU — YOU ARE SO FUCKING FIERCE. YOU WILL BE ONE OF GB’S YOUNGEST ONES BUT I AM MAKING AN EXCEPTION. I USUALLY GO 50 AND OVER.
Its an honor.

If you don’t follow her — you need to — she beats any shot of caffein — @ashleylongshoreart

Glorious Broad #18: ASIA

You do not want to mess with Asia

Or maybe you do …

QUEEN …

PHOTOS: CHRISTOPHER SCALZI / DISTILLED STUDIOS

Of course I fell in love with ASIA within minutes. Nearly 6’ of lusciousness — and her over-the-top storytelling made me swoon.

Glorious Broads are no strangers to restarts — and Asia’s no exception. Our first GB interview was postponed. She got hammered with COVID when people were droppin’ like flies in NYC. We rescheduled. And then ... she vanished. For weeks.

I was patient. Perplexed. But patient. When she rose from the near dead — ‘cause that’s what Asia does — she shared a horrifying medical tale of woe. Treatment mishandled. Racially profiled. Given knowingly ineffective meds. Writhing in pain. For days. Botched procedure. Two return ER visits — in the middle of a god damn pandemic. The end result? Lasting negative effects. And the worst part? Not being heard. At the same time, the streets outside her hospital windows were brimming with BLM demonstrators — also pissed off for not being heard.  

Asia was with them in spirit: “With all this shit going on now: My fuck you meter is all the way up. And this was before George Floyd."

Back in the hospital, Asia was on the cover of the last V.A. Website — that kicked off her latest restart. Once she showed this to a white, male nurse — everything changed. No longer relegated by the medical staff as just another middle-aged Black female, she suddenly had value. Given the right meds she’d been begging for for days — she was released. She was heard.

And if you think that's dramatic, buckle in baby — Asia's story is as twisty as it is glorious ...

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: You know, just your run of the mill Country Star, Civil Servant, Veteran Cover Girl

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Can't Stop Won't Stop, ASIA Lands on Her Feet

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Raconteur Extraordinaire, Truth Teller, Ready for Her Close Up, Mama Bear

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“I’m not shutting up. Don’t shoosh me because I’m a woman ”

SO WHAT’S AN ENTERTAINER LIKE YOU DOIN’ IN THE MILITARY?
Money. My Mama didn't want the government in her business — she was not gonna fill out financial aid papers for any college. I went to the take the test for the Army as a lark — and my scores were one of the top 10 in Houston, Tx. Hey! I’m a smart girl. Then they told me they’d give me $50,000 when you complete just for being a double minority. And a college degree. Sign me up!

WHAT WAS YOUR JOB?
Military intelligence. Secret security clearance. And I was privy to … well, I can’t talk about any of that.

HOW’D YOU SURVIVE?
I was pulled out of class almost every day to sing for a General or a Colonel’s graduation ceremony and cut a record with the 18th Army Band. (laughs) So that’s how.

HOW LONG DID A SPIRIT LIKE YOURS LAST IN THE ARMY?
I left early.

The majority of my life has been full of joy, happiness and peace — but something dark appeared once in a while. And this was one of those “once in a whiles.”

I will just say: I am no victim, but those were the hardest years of my life.

NEXTING INTO NASHVILLE

OOOOO. THAT’S A LOT. BUT FOR YOUR RESTART, YOU ENDED UP IN NASHVILLE. HOW’D A BLACK EX-MILITARY WOMAN GET TO BE A COUNTRY STAR?
(Laughs) I will tell you EXACTLY how. I married military and was a stay-at-home mom … and BOOOOOORED — livin’ in Fort Knox, Kentucky. Every channel: OJ. I’m flipping trying to escape that fool when I come across Shania Twain. And grrrrrrl — I was shook! This was not the country music I grew up with. I KNEW I could do it.

So I started calling country music record companies at 5:30am: "I'm Black and I want to sing Country Music! Is there any room for me in Nashville?"

Just as bold as I want to be! 

WERE YOU THE FIRST BLACK COUNTRY SINGER?
Almost! And people expected me to do “Aretha does country” — and I wouldn’t. And it freaked them the fuck out.

One Record Exec. said she saw FREE major marketing potential — the ‘first’ Black — "you can’t buy publicity like that.”

But there was a lot of racism. One promoter said – and I quote – “If I’d not have seen you sing — I would never have known that you was a colored.”

His version of a compliment.

DID YOU SIGN WITH A LABEL?
I cut an album — the best music I have ever sung in my life... 

And I was super thin and gorgeous then! That helped. (laughs)

“People expected me to do “Aretha does country” — and I wouldn’t. And it freaked them the fuck out.”

The contract and negotiation to become the first Black female artist to sign with a Major Country label had begun ... and then ... the label folded ... along with about 20 other country music labels.

TIME FOR NEXT?
I was scrambling. Warner Brothers Nashville ... Sony ... they were too scared to touch me. They call it ... "The Day Music Row died." And my love for a country music career died with it.

HOW DID YOU SUPPORT YOURSELF AND YOUR KIDS THROUGH THESE UPS AND DOWNS?
Corporate temping. Which I hated. And I was bringing up my precious baby without helping hands from her father. But I got trophies and cash from various competitions so — we got by.

And it was funnnnn …

WHY DO YOU THINK YOU WEREN’T SIGNED?
I was told by a very famous country music producer, “Asia, if you didn’t look the way you look — you’d already be signed.” I thought, "You have more money than God, (Bitch.) You could put your arm around me and walk me right into that room and say: “You’re gonna sign this girl." But he didn’t have the stones.

NEXT - A PEEK INTO POLICE

AND YOU PICK YOURSELF UP AND DO ANOTHER RESTART. DOES THIS TAKE YOU FROM COUNTRY STAR TO … THE POLICE?
I was still working corporate gigs — but that gets old. So I put in for civil service jobs. Let me say this: I don't have anything necessarily “against” police. I dated police. LOTS of police. Working there was like being a kid in a candy store. (laughs)

I was in personnel — my job was to choose police for outside, extra jobs — like the cop at the mall or grocery store. I would go through their files — anybody flagged or with a red ticket in their file — they couldn't be sent out.

Let me tell you, there’s a lot of motherfucking red flags in that damn file. There's a lot of crazy motherfuckers out there with a badge and a gun. I was literally seeing it from the inside.

In other countries, it takes years to get a badge. Here, a few months and a physical, you are handed a gun.

CRAZY
I am not sayin’ there are no good cops. But there has been an infiltration. It is infested from the top to the mother fuckin’ bottom with race soldiers. They are like termites. Tent the house out!

And that is why we are in the fuckin’ mess we are in now.

OVERHAUL, PLEASE!
How do they justify victims like Breonna Taylor? Why aren’t they in jail? But the problem is further — and I saw it by being there. They are trained. But not enough.

And when they see people of color — training goes right out the window.

And that is why James Baldwin is my bible …

I DO THINK IT’S A GOOD THING TO HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS. AWKWARD BUT NECESSARY.
White people have to use their whiteness as a tool to help us. I’ve seen it in action. It works! If you see a Black person being treated wrong in a place you frequent, go up there and get all your mother fuckin’ friends and say: “We will never come to this place again.” Call them on it.

SO — YOU WERE THERE, SCHEDULING POLICE ...
It had its advantages. First: Dating. (laughs)

And having a job with the Police Department was the best scenario for custody court dealings. It didn’t pay well but the prestige made up for it. And I knew how important that was as a Black woman.

But the hours were not working for being a single mom, so I took a better paying corporate job. NEXT…

WHAT’S IT LIKE RAISING A SON IN THIS SYSTEM?
It’s scary as hell. My job is to teach my child to make it home. "Yes, sir. Ok, sir." Make it home baby and we will sue the shit out of them. Just make it home.

IS THERE A PLACE THAT YOU THINK YOU CAN RAISE HIM SAFELY? THAT YOU CAN FEEL THAT YOU BELONG? WELL, THERE’S FRANCE. LIKE JAMES BALDWIN …
No. I don’t think so girl. That was a while ago. They don’t like Black folks there either. You know what happened to Oprah. If they are closing a door in Oprah’s face they are certainly not gonna let my Black ass in. (laughing)

It may just have to be Iceland. Environmentally, they are so far ahead of the curve. But if I move to Iceland, I gotta get a nice little Icelandic man.

Like James Baldwin said: “A negro with any amount of cognitive understanding is in a state of anger 24 hours a day.”

“I no longer struggle with the word NO. My fuck you flag is flying!”

THEN WHAT BRINGS YOU THE JOY? ‘CAUSE I SEE IT …
My talent. It took me out of the ghetto. I was raised in a shotgun house on cinder blocks in the fifth Ward in Houston, Tx. My mother had traveled the country as a jazz singer. Raised in Arkansas … she was a real farm girl. My dad was a jazz musician but wasn’t there to see me into the world. We had very little. But mama had ambition.

I wanted to play the violin when I was seven and the moment I told my mother, she had me in music school the next year. Most of the time, I was the only Black child in the program. And then there was the piano …

I left piano ‘cause Miss Booker used to hit our fingers with a ruler if you played the wrong note. I told my mother that — the next day I was gone. Choral music next, that's when I began to sing. Seeing the opera singer, Leontyne Price and meeting Jessye Norman at age 10 changed my world.

THAT MOTHER OF YOURS IS A GOD DAMN LIONESS
Oh yeah. Mama insisted we sit up straight, talk proper and represent every Black person the moment you walk out that door. Let me tell you, that can be a burden. I was just a kid …

WHAT WOULD YOU TELL YOUR TEENAGE SELF?
You are worth the moon and the stars, worth everything. Don’t let anybody — and don't let any man — take you off your trajectory. Have a true understanding of the woman that you might grow to be.

TELL ME ABOUT YOUR “ON THE ROAD” DAYS — HAIRSPRAY AND ALL THAT …
Oh, I had a bunch of great gigs while I was in Nashville & Houston from around 2009 to 2012. I won awards, had a lot of success. It was fun, but I missed my kids. So when I booked HAIRSPRAY, I told them I wouldn’t go without them. They said: Bring ‘em — we’ll put them in the show. (laughs)

YOU MAY BE MY RESTART QUEEN. BUT WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS YOUR BIGGEST RESTART?
My divorce from my son’s father. The deceit.

I won $500,000 on a game show. A week after we got the money, he filed for divorce, took my money, cheated on me before that — left me with the kids. And no child support.

It wasn't really the divorce. Fuck him. But winning that money was something I did on my own. He thought he should have it all? Wha? There goes my “nest egg.”

That was the biggest restart for me.

And coming to New York the first time — that was another big one.

WELL, YOU KNOW I HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT NEW YORK THE FIRST TIME …
I was coming off a tour and we decided to stay in New York instead of going back to Nashville. Wrong! You cannot just come to New York on a whim. Lesson learned.

DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A FEMINIST?
What does feminism even mean now?

WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
In the '60s and '70s, it was about our voices being heard. Like the Black movement: Listen to us, God dammit. Yeah, we're not just here to cook your goddamn dinner, you know, the burning of the bras and all that. I don’t know what being a feminist means any more.

I’m for female empowerment.

WELL, THAT’S FEMINIST.
My thing is: I’m not shutting up. Don't shoosh me because I’m a woman.

AND equal pay.

PAY ME!
MEN: When you see this shit going on, blow the fucking whistle. If you see a man and a woman — if we got here at the same time, and he's making 90,000 and I'm making 50,000 and you know, good and goddamn well, we are doing the same job. Blow that whistle. And this is the same thing I would say to white people about racism.

Stop letting this shit happen. Stop turning a blind eye. Stand up!

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY WAS THE BEST TIME IN YOUR LIFE — SO FAR?
When I was a child. I was just blissfully ignorant and loved it.

I had a lot of “best times” …

But now — this moment, is the very best time in my life. Covid or not. I am coming into a new season — reaching for dreams I had to defer. My focus is me now.

NEXT: MAMA GETS SOME BOUNDARIES

YOU ARE SUCH A GLORIOUS BROAD. WHAT DOES GLORIOUS MEAN TO YOU?
I get plenty from glorious but I especially love broad. It's always had such a negative connotation and it's like taking it back and making it like, fucking awesome. Glorious for me is to be happy in my own skin. And I finally am.

WHY “FINALLY”
I no longer struggle with the word No. I can say fuck you to anything that I think is even attempting to denigrate me.

Channeling Mahalia during our shoot — daaaaaamn!

NEXT: THE RESTART QUEEN MEETS THE QUEEN OF GOSPEL

YOU ARE LIKE PHOENIX RISING, QUEEN. SO, WHEN DID MAHALIA JACKSON COME INTO YOUR LIFE?
I always associated Mahalia with my Grandmother and Sundays. The grits are cooking – and Mahalia is there. So initially that’s what drew me in. I knew her.

And then, I got an audition to play Mahalia and had to learn songs I didn’t recognize. I mimic well. So I sang exactly what I heard. And they were like. Whoa. You sound just like her. So. That got me the role.

BUT IT GOT DEEPER
Oh yeah. I did research, read every book, every interview. I knew I had to sing “Go Tell It On the Mountain” and at least 20 other songs. I listened to her 24-7 for like 3 weeks.

And she is so much like me — a cussin’ Christian. Everybody saw her as an angel. No no no.

And she had relationships with men who didn’t understand her. Didn’t appreciate her. I started to understand that too. (Laughs)

“How do I find joy in life? How do I find sunshine in the clouds? That’s what Black people have to do every day”

She was a leader and gave thousands of dollars in bail – she would pull money out of her bra — and say — go get those people out of jail. She was an activist. Like me. But people only know her as the big voice.

Club owners would beg her: Sing something else besides gospel. Here’s 10K a night. Please. But she wouldn’t. Her commitment to singing only for the Lord was a promise to God she made good on.

HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN YOU TOOK ON THIS ROLE?
The first one was in 2014 so …

OH. YOU WERE A GROWN UP.
On yeah. A grown ass woman.

My fierceness to her comes from the reaction that I got from the audience. I mean — I had grown men crying buckets in my weave. (laughs)

The Houston Press Theater Association nominated me for best actress for 2017. My review read that he had not heard anyone who brought this woman to life like she did. So all this kept me in it.  

But then…

NEXT: THE HURRICANE CAME, DEVASTATION REIGNED

Oh I am good at a re-start. But that Hurricane...

I had just moved into my apartment and Hurricane Harvey struck on the 10th day.

When that storm tore through Houston— my hopes were dashed. Didn’t get to go to the swell Gala from being nominated  — no introductions to better opportunities — nowhere to wear my fuckin’ fabulous gown, now under 4’ of water. I had to accept that it wasn’t going to happen for me … in Houston that is…

‘Cause I was STILL on fire for Mahalia. I wanted the world to meet her. I focused on that. How to make this show international. All the while raising my baby — and holding down a full time corporate job.

OMG. I’M EXHAUSTED HEARING THIS TALE! SO YOU WERE OVER WITH HOUSTON…
After this production of Mahalia, I got tours in Mid Tier Theaters — but they pay peanuts. Selling out shows every night and you pay me nothing?

Higher Tier Theaters won’t hire me or people who look like me.

So another fuck you flag was on its way.

Until you pay me what I am worth — I am not doing it. And they still call me to this day. I’m in New York now. Bye Bye (Bitch.)

NEXT: NEW YORK DONE RIGHT!

I packed up with my daugther and son and said — we are gonna do New York right this time. I was not just a musical person looking for a break any more. Now I had Mahalia. I had a mission.

IS THERE A NEW INCARNATION FOR MAHALIA?
I am producing a one-woman show on her life — not what I did before. Now I’m writing it. You cannot tell a Black woman’s story like a Black woman can.

So that’s why I am so tied in…

Another one of the things that brought me here: On Oct 1, 1950 Mahalia had a sold-out gospel show at Carnegie Hall. I wanted to work with them to create a 70-year memorial concert. I called the CEO the moment I arrived. No shame in my game! My goal was to get in touch with the right people and start the ball rolling in the beginning of the year. And then …

NEXT: CORONA QUARANTINE

OH GOD …

YOU ARE A FIERCE MOTHER AND A FIERCE ENTERTAINER. BUT YOU MADE THE DECISION THAT MOTHERHOOD WOULD COME FIRST. DID THAT COST YOU?
I don’t look at it that way. Putting my children first was then and will always be the right thing to do for me.

If I had been without them — oh — I probably would have gotten into a lot MORE trouble. (laughs) Everybody has to draw a line. What you’re gonna do. And what you ain’t gonna do. Like Mahalia — offered 10k a night to sing secular music. And she wouldn’t.

AMEN SISTER.

WHAT WAS DIFFERENT ABOUT THIS LAST VISIT TO NEW YORK?
My first time, I was auditioning scared. People feel that. This time, there’s no fear. I will do an audition, but baby I’m not scared of you no more. Those three minutes are my time. And I’m gonna give it all I got, leave It right there on the floor. And if you want me. I’m here. But pay me what I am worth. If not. Bye! Cause I got me an apartment on the upper west side. I’m good.

I would say we are “Gucci” now. But I don’t say that anymore. I hate Gucci. Did you see those blackface ads? Gucci could not pay me 100 billion fucking dollars to put their stuff on.

Fuck Gucci. Glorious Broads not sponsored by Gucci.

THIS IS SO GLORIOUS.
I am just gonna keep rollin’. The coronavirus just — ummmm — it took the wind out of my sails – but I still got the sails. (laughs)

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO BE REMEMBERED FOR?
Being a loving, protective, supportive mother.

Being a super successful Entertainer.

A kick-ass business woman.

And being funny.

All the shit dumped on my fucking head — I still find a way to make a joke.

Can you say RESILIENT? Drop everything and go follow Asia's Insta @garnetgirlproductions or on AsiaKaleem.com. This Glorious Broad has been booking gigs with no help since arriving in NYC. Paging Asia's Dream Team already...

Glorious Broad #17: Liz Friedman

PHOTOS: CHRISTOPHER SCALZI / DISTILLED STUDIOS

Hair/Makeup: Tiagi Lambert

That necklace: Designed by Liz Friedman

The Bomb in all her glory

The beyond glorious jewelry designer/fashion icon/consummate New Yorker, 81 year-old Liz Friedman, is utterly charming with her wit and — yes — gonna say it — wisdom. But this ain't granny story time — her yarns had me doing spit takes with my 11 dollar cappuccino when we met at Ralphs Coffee. Like the one about how Bergdorf's started to carry her (beyond amazing) jewelry line...  At first they foolishly ignored her calls until she left the following message: “If I didn’t love this store so much I wouldn’t bother telling you this. I've been in your downstairs café selling my jewelry like crazy, and you are not making a nickel on these sales. Wouldn’t you like to talk?” The phone rang within minutes. Slay, Queen!

And GBs, the Liz Freidman ride is just beginning — fasten your seatbelts for a glorious ride…

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Fundraiser Cum Jewelry Designer Cum Consummate New Yorker

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Draws a Crowd Just Walking Down the Street, Late Bloomer

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Hilarious Storyteller, Survivor, Thriver, Living Her Best Life

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“I want you to look at me! I DON’T want to be invisible.”

SO HOW AND WHEN DID YOU DEVELOP YOUR LOOK? I LOVE THAT IT’S NOT OVERLY OUTRAGEOUS  — JUST PURE FUCKIN’ FABULOUS.
I’m glad you call it fabulous.

I always knew that what I loved and what I could have were not the same thing. First, I grew up as a fat kid. Second, my parents were very leftist — they viewed clothes as superficial.

SO WHAT DID THE YOUNG YOU DO?
I started to sew my own clothes. Very early. And in ’56, I went off to college and lived on a Kibbutz in Israel.

HOW DID YOU BLOSSOM ON A KIBBUTZ???
Well, anything related to fashion was deliberately denigrated there … but I got ahold of Vogue magazine. It cost a whole month’s allowance and I devoured it. I couldn’t have any of that stuff but …

BUT WHAT?
Coming back from Israel, where we saw NOTHING, we went to Italy, Florence and Rome for 4 days. The impression that made on me …

TELL ME.
Those women! The cut of the suits, the leather, the shoes! I wore a size nine shoe which was unheard of in Italy in those days. But I managed. That whole elegant look — yet something more. My basic style has stayed the same since.

BUT HOW DID YOU TURN INTO … THIS?
I returned home, and in my freshman year at Queens College, I met this older woman I was trying to befriend. She said to me, ‘I think you're the best kid in the world, and I want to be friends with you but — I don’t like fat kids. So as soon as you get that off … ‘

I lost 75 pounds.

I went to Paris to finish school, and suddenly, everybody’s falling all over me. (chuckling) That never happened before…

UNLEASHED — at 65

HOW DID YOU DRESS IN YOUR WORKING LIFE?
When you’re paid a salary, you have to do what they want. I had to be conservative. Stylish, but conservative. But when I left the organization ...

YOU WERE UNLEASHED …
First, I discovered consignment clothing. I had a secretary who used to have these clothes that — how the hell can she afford this …

And she told me about this place called Encore — the granddaddy of resale shops — and I was off to the races.

AND THE VINTAGE?
This jacket I have on is from 1900 — I bought stuff like this from a garage on 25th street — the workmanship! And I wore those wonderful petticoats — made me look like I was on the Titanic.

Then I started to go to England where they had great hat makers. It was like a costume party. And it just fed on itself.  

LOVE.

And then I got into making jewelry …

WHAT AGE?
I was retired. Like …. 2003. I’m 81 now so whatever that was.

I started getting more and more attention and meeting people. I was staying at the Regina Hotel in Paris. I walked out on the street and some very tall gentleman came over and slips me a piece of paper — it was a modeling release.

He said: ‘Madame, you are the most fashionable woman in all Paris.’ Now, when I was 20 — nobody ever paid any attention to me like that.

But everybody's gathering on the street. They think I’m somebody famous …

LOVE LOVE!
Then this bus tour comes along and the guide gets off the bus and — thinking I didn’t speak French — says: Ladies and gentleman: Now this is Parisian chic. I said: ‘Yeah, from Brooklyn.’

I got a laugh …

AND YOU’RE STILL PASSIONATE ABOUT FASHION …
I am as excited about fashion today at 81 as I was when I 20 years old.

And I want you to look at me!

I DON’T want to be invisible. (laughs)

DID YOU DREAM AT 16 YOU WOULD BECOME THE WOMAN THAT YOU ARE TODAY?
I saw myself always living in Manhattan and being a very sort of sophisticated type.

AN AUNTIE MAME TYPE?
Absolutely.

“ Have your own, be your own, do your own.”

DID YOU WANT KIDS?
I used to think about it. But I sort of knew that wasn’t for me.

HOW DO YOU SPEND YOUR TIME? YOU’RE SHOT BY PHOTOGRAPHERS ON THE STREETS — EVERYWHERE.
it’s very unstructured. I leave myself open to new adventures.

WELL, YOUR ENERGY IS AMAZING.
You don't see me lying about in an old terry cloth bath robe …

ARE YOU AT ALL INTERESTED IN A LOVE LIFE AT THIS POINT?
I don’t think about it.

My young friend is funny — she’ll say oh look — this guy's looking at you …

What am I gonna do with that? No. That someone should look the other way.

WHEN DID YOU WALK AWAY FROM ALL THAT?
When I was 40, I cleaned up everything. I stopped drinking. I stop smoking. I stopped drugs and I said I would stop having sex for a bit. I was promiscuous back then …

OUCH
I would try that for a year and then — somewhere along the line — celibacy chose me.

Also — I didn’t do what you have to do to attract a guy.

LIKE?
I always felt that what I liked most about me is what made me least likeable to men: My outrageousness. My strong opinions.

I couldn’t live with a man now. Although … adjoining planets might work …

AND IF HE ROCKETS OVER TO YOUR PLANET ONCE IN A WHILE …

WELL, WHAT WERE YOU DOING FOR A LIVING AT FORTY?
Always fundraising.

AND HOW WAS THAT?
I loved it.

I wasn’t the March of Dimes. I don’t do that crowd.

I don't do direct mail. You give me a million dollars and I’ll do things with grace.

It's not fundraising, it’s friend raising.

People think — oh you're doing good. No. I’m not doing good. I’m doing well.

ABOUT THAT CLEAN UP …

TELL ME MORE ABOUT THAT CLEAN UP AT 40 — THAT A BIG RESTART?
Well, I kind of went off the rails for a while.

I never got fat again. But that fear was looming over me. I did all the anorexic things — the bulimic things. I was thinking about food all the time. And I loved that everybody thought I was in control. But I was totally out of control.

AND WERE YOU WORKING?
Oh yes, I was a successful working woman. But I would go on these eating binges … it seems so long ago. It’s easy to talk about now.

I would start on a Friday night and by the time I had to go back to work on Monday, I couldn’t fit into anything, my face was swollen — and I was drinking.

Everything was falling apart.

WHAT TURNED IT AROUND?
I walked into an Overeaters Anonymous Meeting. I immediately thought — these are the sickest people I've ever seen in my life.

And somebody came over to me and said: ‘Could you come to 30 meetings, one meeting every day?’

Well, I wasn’t even gonna stay through this one. (Laughs)

And I said, Well, what if I don't like it? Do I get my money back? I didn't know it was free…

Her answer? ‘At the end of the 30 days, if you don't like what happens here, we’ll give you back your over eating and your misery. How’s that?’

And I thought: this is powerful.

VERY.

So I started to go every day. And I thought what they did in there was ridiculous. Stupid.

That was 40 years ago and I’ve never eaten another grain of sugar, I’ve never had a food binge and I’ve never over eaten since.

But it was hard. Then I thought, I might as well clean up everything else: drinking, smoking, all of it. And I'd like to tell you that my life worked out wonderfully from then on.

It didn’t.

IT WASN’T ALL RAINBOWS Y’ALL

I went through a period for five years where I almost never got out of bed. I lost my job. I lost everything. I didn't have a cent to my name. I thought it was over. In AA they say: the miracle is just around the corner. And I thought all the king's horses and all the king's men can’t help me out …

My brother was paying my rent. But nobody knew what was going on — ‘cause I could still get dressed…

I have a five year blank in my resume …

And one day … I was now 46, I had to go to a wedding in Jersey.

And I got all dressed up, the way I did.

This woman comes over to me and says, ‘I remember you. You’re the best fundraiser in the business. You’re gonna come work for me.’

I thought — ho ho, yeah, sure …

She said: What are you doing these days?

I said, oh… very busy. Then she told me: ‘I just gave a foundation a million dollars but they’ll  only get it if they raise another million to match — and they’re inept with raising funds ….. ‘

OH MY GOD. WOW.

And I didn’t know anyone. ANYONE.

She says I want you to go see the foundation President tomorrow. I didn't even have bus fare. I carried my shoes in my bag as I walked there. The President and I interview. And that's when I learned the rules of the working world, which I now teach. You never go to personnel — and don’t have a resumé. It means nothing. ‘Cause when somebody who gave a million dollars says to the President: You're gonna hire her … you've got the job.

He never asked me what I've been doing all these years. Instead it's: Someone told me that you're an expert in this area. Can you help us? ‘Well, I’m busy.’ Can’t you give us any time?

‘Well, maybe three days a week.’

My scenario was at the end of the first day, they’ll fire me. But they'll have to pay me for that day and I could live on that for a long time. So he asked, how much do you get? This was like 1986. I said $500 a day — the biggest number I could think of. He says yeah, we can give you that.

So I went in Monday. I came back Wednesday, and in one month, I raised a million dollars.

YOU’RE KILLING ME …

They thought I walked on the water. They made me a director of the organization at some astronomical salary. So that was the end of that.

I’M DUMBFOUNDED. 

If my brother wasn’t paying my rent, I’d be on street. I had nothing. I used to think, how did I use to buy a dress? How did I buy a tube of lipstick? And then the next two days after I got hired, I’m on a yacht — and we’re cruising up the Hudson.

WOW, WOW, THAT ….

I believe that there is a miracle in everybody's life, you just got to get out there and find it and I keep telling people: Do not stay in your apartment.

NO.

You know what that is? You open a vial and you put poison into your head and then you close it up. You need to be talking, meet people — stay outside.

Every addiction whether drinking, drugs, eating. You know what they’re called? Diseases of isolation.

THAT IS SOME STORY …

The great biographer, Ted Morgan, said ‘I'm never interested in anybody who’s life trajectory is just upwards. It bores me.’

And me neither. I want to know — how low did you go and what did you do to get up?

Too much success puts me to sleep.

IN THE BEGINNING, WHEN I WAS FIRST WRITING THESE INTERVIEWS, I WAS JUST DOING HAPPY NEWS. AND SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, I REALIZED I HAD TO ASK THESE WOMEN ABOUT WHAT CHANGED THEM — THE CHALLENGES — THE MUCK THEY CLIMBED OUT OF …
Yeah. If you ask a very successful guy, how did you get here, he’ll say, well, I kicked ass and I did this, I did that. Most women will tell you — guess I just got lucky… 

CAN WE CHANGE THAT IN OUR LIFETIME? I THINK THE YOUNGER GENERATION WILL — AND IS …

“One of the sad things that happens to older people: They don’t fantasize any more. I was going to start a thearapy group — a fantasy factory”

DO YOU HAVE ANY DESIRE TO BE 20 AGAIN?
None.

98% OF THE WOMEN I INTERVIEW TELL ME THIS.
My life took off like a bat out of hell from 46 to now. Those early years were kind of horrific.

WOULD YOU SAY YOU’RE A SPIRITUAL PERSON?
You are familiar with the 12 steps?

OH YES. I LIVE NEXT TO THE INFAMOUS PERRY STREET AA HOUSE.
Well, I'm not a believer. I always tell everybody you can get sober and clear without believing in “God.”

OH YEAH, I’VE HEARD: GOD IS A GANG OF DRUNKS …
But for a while I did …. you know, you get very desperate and when you have no money — you grab on to anything — you'll grab on to Marianne Williamson (laughs) … or what’s your sign in astrology …

But there is a magic to AA. You can take people that have been to every kind of therapy. Nothing works. And you stick them in a room with a bunch of drunks and they get it all out.

And I haven't stuck with anything else for 40 years....

WERE YOU MARRIED?
Yeah. For 2 years. Age 30.

SO WHAT IS YOUR PHILOSOPHY ON MARRIAGE?
Women are better off developing themselves and their way of life alone.  Be with a man because you like his company, but have your own life, enjoy your own company, and own your own money.

The minute you go with a man because you need something … it’s over.

DO YOU THINK PARTNERSHIPS CAN BE EQUAL?
I’ve seen so many women who never really develop. ‘My husband wouldn't want me to do this … if I go in that direction, it would end the marriage.’

Even in my two years of marriage this happened. ‘He wouldn’t like this, I have a secret about that, I can’t do this…’

Eventually, you’re gonna rebel.

But I may be a little cynical … (laughs)

PREACH!

SO, DO YOU HAVE ANY REGRETS?
The amount of time I spent worrying and thinking about men — which is what we’re doing now.

OOOPS.

GOT SOME ADVICE FOR YOUNG WOMEN?
Have your own, be your own, do your own.

DID SUCCESS CHANGE FOR YOU AS TIME WENT ON — OR IS SUCCESS JUST SUCCESS?
After all those years in AA, where they tell you you’re a successful person if you don’t drink today — well — it’s a little hard to buy that one. But after my struggles, I don't like to measure success in terms of dollars and cents any more.

ARE YOU THE SAME PERSON THAT YOU WERE AT 30, 40, 50?
No. I don't think anybody is. I don’t want to be. Do we become wiser? I don’t know. There are plenty of stupid older people. I think the important thing is — keep being open.

SO WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS THE BIGGEST RISK YOU’VE TAKEN IN YOUR LIFE?
I stayed alone.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE REMEMBERED FOR?
For the humor. Being interesting. Being fun. Being generous. I’ll be happy with that.

I THINK YOU’RE A GLORIOUS BROAD. WHAT DOES GLORIOUS MEAN TO YOU?
Glorious Broad is like … Elaine Stritch, Rosalind Russell, Diana Vreeland.

A generosity of spirit.

EXPLAIN THAT TO ME?
When you talk with someone like this, you feel like the most important person. They find you endlessly fascinating. There have been about a half a dozen men like that in my life.

A HALF A DOZEN? MEN THAT YOU LIKE? THAT YOU LOVE?
Love in a different kind of way.

Adlai Stevenson was one them. I could say that name to you because you’ll know who he was. He was that. And I remember a story I read that spoke to me — there was a party one night and Jack Kennedy was standing with journalist, Clayton Fritchey — and there was Adlai, surrounded by a troop of enraptured, beautiful women. Kennedy turns to his friend and says: ‘What the hell does that guy have? He’s fat. He's bald.’ Clayton says: ‘You want to know Jack? You love women. Adlai likes them. They know the difference.’

And he’s right. It’s a certain thing, not just manners …

The way they treat you… not condescending, with interest. With savoir faire.

It’s relaxed. It is sexual. But it's not sexual.

Life enhancing. No matter what you do, you are perfect.

And when I have an encounter with somebody, afterwards I ask myself, do I feel like the same person? Do I feel diminished?

YES.

Or do I feel elevated?

YES.

MORE UPS AND DOWNS

Today is my birthday, and my friend made reservations at Jean-Georges — the meal’s gonna cost $100 each at least. When we got there, the hostess said ‘Oh I couldn’t get you the table you wanted — that’s for VIPs.’

So: Diminished right away. What a stupid thing to say. She should just say: I’m sorry.

Now, if you had been to a Danny Meyer’s restaurant —

UNION SQUARE CAFÉ?
My brother took me there for lunch and I loved it. So I came back. I didn’t know that you needed reservations.

I get down there and there’s this big line, including Christopher Reeve, before the accident, and Bob Abrams, who was running for Senate. This young kid comes over to me and shows me this perfect table that was reserved. He says, ‘Go to the bar, and if they don't show — it's yours.’ I ask: ‘But Christopher Reeves and Bob Abrams are here.’ The young kid said ‘And Liz Friedman. And you are Liz Friedman.’

I LOVE THAT.
After 10 minutes, he says — it’s your table. And we were served like queens.

At the end of this perfect meal, I came up to this kid and — I never do this — but I slipped him five dollars. He puts it back in my hand and said ‘You don’t have to do that — ‘cause I am the owner and my name is Danny Meyers. The best gift you can give me is just keep coming back.’

NOW I LOVE HIM.

He elevated me.

Rules to live by!

THIS WAS SO AMAZING. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I feel like I did too much talking.

NO WAY. AFTER THIS ENCOUNTER, BELIEVE ME, I AM ELEVATED.

Liz has an instagram account she ignores at lizfriedman2. You’ll find her in Humans of New York Stories and popping up in fashion pages as, yep, the consummate New Yorker.

Glorious Broad #16: Justin Vivian Bond

PHOTOS: CHRISTOPHER SCALZI / DISTILLED STUDIO

Hair: Paul Warren using René Furterer for Judy Casey Inc.

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Cabaret Diva, Singer, Song-writer, Artist, Activist

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Sexy Quirkball in the Mansion Next Door

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Sharp as a Tack, Hilarious, Randy, Mouthy

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“Early on I realized — if I fill up a club and it makes money off the booze — they’re just happy to have me there. It’s my audience. I’m the producer.”

I was thrilled — way beyond my ability to remain cool — to be invited to the fabulous Justin Vivian Bond's “House of Whimsy” in upstate New York. We spent the afternoon on a sun drenched, delightful, cozy porch — boozing, laughing, chatting away about life, art, politics — and sex, bien sur.

JVB became a New York legend as Kiki DuRane, one half of the infamous, Tony-nominated act, Kiki and Herb. I first saw this superstar 18 years ago at Westbeth Theatre, and felt mesmerized, strangely connected to Kiki (perhaps my inner rage?) After 20 years of success, JVB (known as Viv to friends) had the chutzpah to leave the duo and rock out solo as a cabaret performer. Now free from the constraints of WWKD (What Would Kiki Do?), Justin Vivian Bond on stage is magnetic, political, hilarious and poignant — called "the best cabaret artist of their* generation” by the New Yorker, by the by.

Grab a glass of rosé and settle in for this extended chat with the very Glorious Broad, Mx Justin Vivian Bond …

WAS IT HARD FOR YOU TO MAKE THE DECISION TO LEAVE KIKI AND HERB AT ITS PEAK?
No, it was hard for me to continue with it.

WHY?
It was defining me. I have some distance from Kiki now and I still love that character. But Kiki came out of the AIDS crisis in a time when I lived in San Francisco. I was so fragile. She was a way for me to channel my rage …. it just wore me out. I either had to commit to doing it for the rest of my life, or put a complete cold stop to it. Which is what I did.

AND HERB?
He really didn’t want to do that. So. We didn’t speak for like five years.

Right after my 50th birthday, we started talking. And then, we did a reunion 3 years later.

HELLOOOO. I COULDN’T GET A TICKET!
Yeah, people loved it. The program director at Joes Pub said: “how much would it take for you to bring Kiki back.” It was shortly after I saw this house. I did my calculations. And she said “I think we can do it.”

(Laughs) And so this is the house that Kiki bought.

WAS THE CROSS OVER TOUGH? COMING OUT AS JUSTIN VIVIAN BOND ON STAGE AFTER THE BELOVED KIKI?
When we were at Fez as Kiki and Herb, I thought, ok, I’ll start performing at Joe’s Pub as Justin Bond and developing my own separate audience.

THE AUDIENCE DIDN’T DEMAND KIKI?
No. I didn’t just quit one and start the other. My fans were people that came to see Kiki and Herb because they wanted to see me being trashy.

BUT ULTIMATELY YOU WERE READY FOR A CHANGE?
Well, we took Kiki and Herb to Broadway. We headlined. We did Carnegie Hall twice. Sold out. We toured the world. So I know what it’s like to be in that place.

And you know what? It’s not really that much fun. It’s a lot of work.

TOO MUCH WORK?
I will just say that you have many people messing with you. They invest in you. And they want their money back.

SO WHAT ABOUT NOW?
Now, I just basically call all the shots.

WELL, I LOVE SEEING YOU POP UP ON COOL TV SHOWS AND EVEN COOLER MOVIES.
I love that too! And I don’t have an agent or a manager.

I’m like, yeah, I like that show. I’ll be on that show. This year alone I was on Difficult People, High Maintenance …

And the movie, Can You Ever Forgive Me ... about the woman who wrote the biography of Estée Lauder, Lee Israel. I am obsessed with Estée Lauder.

So, when I got that call, I was like, well, I just need you to know that I’m standing here talking to you from my living room, and I’m literally looking at the book Lee wrote. Because it’s on my altar.

PROVIDENCE!
So the answer is YES

“I always liked fabulous old broads. And now I am one”

SO MUCH HAS CHANGED IN TERMS OF GENDER AND HOW IT’S BEEN PERCEIVED SINCE YOU STARTED WORKING.
All these things I dreamed about when I was young just seemed so impossible. But I didn’t give up, whereas a lot of others did.

Now I see these people 20 or 30 years younger than me – and they have their entry.

I SEE YOU CALLING OUT AGEISM ON SOCIAL MEDIA, LIKE WHEN ONLY YOUNG PERFORMERS ARE CHOSEN FOR AN AWARD THAT IS CLEARLY RIGHT FOR YOU.
Yeah, it’s true. Not ok. I don’t have getting older wake up calls that a lot of other people do. I never have kids around me to go … you’re embarrassing. Stop! You’re old. Nobody’s ever said that.

NO AGE GAUGE. ME NEITHER.
We don’t have those references. And with young gay people, they want to call older trans women their Auntie or Mom or whatever. I’m like: I’m not your fucking mother, and I’m not your fucking Auntie. No, I don’t have children your age. I fuck children your age.
(We cackle)

SO WHO WERE YOUR MENTORS?
My true mentor is Kate Bornstein.

TRANS-ITION

I had been in San Francisco for less than a year, and got cast as a romantic lead in a gay musical — the sex object. I’d never been that. In college, it was all about needing to butch up. Very discouraging. Kate was at the show — and she came knocking on the dressing room door.

SHE SPOTTED THE TALENT ...
Well, she’d just written this play called Hidden A Gender. Kate wanted me to play the lead, a trans character. And I was like, (whispers) I don’t want to play this part. I was just feeling good about being a boy. I knew it was an act but I was enjoying that people were buying it.

A trusted friend told me: you’ve got to play this part. So I did. That was the beginning of this journey as a trans person. Coming to terms with all that …

WHEN DID YOU KNOW YOU WERE TRANS?
All through my teens, I prayed that I would wake up and be a woman — you know. And I didn’t want to be a trans person. I’d always been a freak, because I was outed as gay from the time I was 10 or 11. And I didn’t even know what gay was. You’re treated in that way… (whispers) I’m not gonna have to go through all that again …

WHAT DOES BEING TRANS MEAN TO YOU?
I learned so much Kate. She was a trans woman. And she was herself — a woman but more than that. We found a new way of looking at ourselves, which there weren’t really words for. We were part of that nexus.

HOW DID YOU START TO GIVE PEOPLE THE WORDS?
We toured that show to Women’s Studies groups and colleges. And we started doing talk backs. We discovered that the whole binary gender system was kind of a fraud. Because the words — being man or woman – was not enough. I feel that we definitely helped open that door.

AND NOW EVERYONE IS BECOMING AWARE — FROM TOILET SIGNAGE TO GOVERNMENT FORMS — THE WHOLE DAMN WORLD IS CHANGING.
It’s like the whole Mx thing. I started to use it. And these activists in Brighton, England checked with me to see if they could use Mx for another category. OF COURSE. Now Mx is in the dictionary!

Then I went to battle with The New York Times.

VIV VS. THE GRAY LADY

When they reviewed my book, “Tango: My Childhood, Backward and in High Heels” they talked about me being a trans throughout the article, but they called me a boy in the headline. Wha? If I’m a trans, why are you Mr. Bonding me? They didn’t get it.

WHAT YEARS WERE THESE?
2011. A lot’s changed since then.

They would continue to print stuff and get it all wrong, I’d put it up on Twitter or Instagram “The New York Times did it again!” and get immediate support. The internet’s changed everything.

Then, they did a great big profile on me in the style section. And this guy, Michael Schulman, he had to fight to change the rules of the style guide.

They now agreed to say, Justin Vivian Bond, who was born male, but who identifies as transgender and uses the pronoun …. blah blah blah. They couldn’t just use the pronoun. But that’s ok. It was a MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH.

And so the whole thing started, with Kate and I, the Style Guide in The New York Times — changing the language. We need these words. Or, therefore, the ideas don’t exist. Now the ideas do exist.

SO HERE’S A QUESTION. I MEAN, HERE YOU ARE — THIS AMAZING, GLORIOUS BROAD …
Thank you.

AS A KID, DID YOU SEE YOURSELF BECOMING WHO YOU ARE TODAY?
Totally.

TOTALLY?
Yeah, I was like, get out of my way.

And I still feel that way. I mean, that’s why I was excited about the idea of Glorious Broads — I was obsessed with those kinds of people. It was like — someday I’m going to be that.

ENTER KIKI

SO — WHAT IS KIKI’S ORIGIN STORY?
Well, I’m in my 20s, living in San Francisco, learning about politics, living in the midst of this genocide against gay men. And I’m realizing that I need to perform and be a voice for my community. The coolest, hippest, wildest people were the ones that died first — and I was not a cool, hip, radical person — but I admired them. And wanted to be one.

So one night, I realized I could create a character who could say all these things that I wanted to say as a 27 year old, but that I couldn’t really say it without sounding just like, well, how millennials sound now. I just felt like I found a way to say it that was charming. And people would listen. And I showed up as Kiki.

SO YOU PUT YOUR REAL SELF OUT THERE.
Yeah. I had to keep getting where I was going. But I could have been more challenging in retrospect — especially with my parents.

WHEN YOU DID COME OUT TO THEM?
After college. They were paying for it. So I’m not gonna fuckin’ tell them anything they don’t want to know until it was paid for!

ANY REPERCUSSIONS?
Well. My father didn’t speak to me.

AND WHEN DID THEY UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WERE TRANS?
I made it clear to them that I was trans in the early 90s. Like many straight people they tried to pretend it wasn’t so until I started on hormones when I was in my late 40s.

HOW’D THAT GO?
My father called me on Thanksgiving Day, years ago. I thought he was wishing me a happy Thanksgiving. No. He wanted me to know that he doesn’t want me to come home looking like a “fake woman.” OK. You don’t want me to come home.

Well, then he got cancer. When I got the news he was sick, I said to my sister: I’m sad that he’s got stage 4 cancer. And hope he recovers, but, I just don’t want him to die between April 21st and May 22nd, because that’s the Kiki and Herb reunion and its gonna be a lot of work — and I just don’t want him to die then. OK?

DID HE LISTEN?
May 6th, three days before my birthday and smack dab in the middle of the run.

STICKING IT TO YOU …
That son of a bitch …

DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A FEMINIST?
Of course I am a feminist. My hope for feminism was that it would break down the barriers of gender. But when it became the “women’s movement,” it left men out. It became marketed.

But I always have been and continue to be a feminist.

“FARRAH” — WATERCOLOR BY JUSTIN VIVIAN BOND

GLORIOUS ROOTS

WHAT INSPIRED YOUR STYLE AND SENSE OF SELF?
I always liked fabulous old ladies. I was obsessed with my dad’s best friend’s mother, Mrs. Offutt. She had a three-story mansion. She lived alone, was Swedish and wore bright red lipstick — all the time. Peroxide blonde hair, thin. Very chic. And living on a shoestring. The rich husband died and his family screwed her over. She had Pekingese and English sheep dogs, a shed and a cage behind her mansion — and the inside of the house was gorgeous, beautifully furnished from better days. Two grand pianos. She liked me. She’d say things like: I think you have to be smart to not get headaches. You probably don’t get a lot of headaches, do you? “No. I don’t.” She’d get on a skateboard and go down to the middle of town when she was in her fifties … nobody did that. I wanted to be like her. And now I am.

Sleeping with inappropriate people in my big house. The kooky lady with the pink door, bringing my men out.

I LOVE IT.
I love it.

DO YOU FEEL FREER AS YOU GET OLDER?
I don’t know if I feel freer – I think the really fun people are either — just aged into not being as much fun — or they OD’d. There’s just not as many free spirits around me anymore.

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH AGING?
I’m trying to be pretty upbeat about the whole thing. I mean, it’s like, how much pressure do you put on yourself? How much pressure do you put on other people to believe in your delusion about yourself? (laughing)

I don’t feel like it’s over. But I do definitely feel condescended to quite often by younger people.

WELL, LET’S GO AGELESS. I’M FREEZE DRYIN’ AT 67. IT HAS A NICE RING … PEOPLE WILL ASSUME THINGS WITH NUMBERS, AND TREAT YOU DIFFERENTLY — UNLESS WE CHOOSE TO EDUCATE THEM I’m on this app where I get all my sex. And I’m on there as 38 and you know what? If they come to all the trouble to come to your house to have sex, they don’t give a fuck.

They’re like, you’re so beautiful. Can I come over? And I’m like … maybe ….

And it just says I’m not a biological female.

That’s the first line on my thingey.

MY FINAL QUESTION IS WHAT DOES GLORIOUS MEAN TO YOU — SINCE YOU ARE A GLORIOUS BROAD?
Fully realized — as her experience allows.

That’s a Glorious Broad — because you still have to be adventurous.

I heard somebody I would have considered to be glorious say: “I just don’t get it with the ‘they’ and ‘them.’ I don’t know. I just don’t like it.”

I didn’t say anything, but I wanted to say to her: so, when was it that you decided that you didn’t need to learn anything anymore?

I don’t ever want to get to that point.

* We’ve corrected this quote to use Viv’s preferred pronouns they/them/their — People, let’s get it together with the pronouns already!

Make your day by following Mx Justin Vivian Bond on instagram @mxviv. You’ll learns lots, laugh lots, and hear where they will be performing.

Glorious Broad #15: Shatzi Weisberger

Say it loud!

That’s all she wants …

PHOTOS: CHAE KIHN

Shatzi’s Gloriousness pierced my consciousness when I read how she celebrated her 90th birthday — demonstrating for Black Lives Matter — in the middle of COVID-19 and — get this — using a wheely. Turns out this Broad is all over the internet. Says Shatzi, “I don’t care about celebrity: I care about the message getting out.”

And she has — as a "Dyke Opposed to Nuclear Technology," supporting justice for Palestinians, abolishing police and prisons, fighting discrimination, and caregiving for AIDS patients in the '80s. Her latest passion? The ultimate taboo — educating folks about end of life options in Art of Dying Workshops.

But it's not all causes and demonstrations — this Glorious Broad also loves her nightly toke and is (very) interested in finding a kissing buddy. No protesting that!

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Registered Nurse for 47 years, Inveterate Activist

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Rabble Rouser, True Believer, an Activist's Activist

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Firebrand Dynamo, Lifelong Learner, Breaking Curfew with Her Walker

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“I definitely support the anti-ageism movement — but I’m not organizing around it. I’m living it.”

WELL, NOW YOU’RE KNOWN AS THE 90-YEAR-OLD ACTIVIST WHO BROKE THE “ELDERLY” RULES — OF COVID — AND CURFEWS — TO SUPPORT BLACK LIVES MATTER …
True. Trying to protect my own health when police were killing and getting away with it — I had to take the health risk. I affixed my Black Lives Matter sign to my walker, put on my PPE, and wheeled out into the streets.

TELL US: WHAT WERE YOU LIKE AS A KID?
Even as a teenager, I felt I couldn't just be concerned about injustice — I had to do something about it. So I became an activist very early in life.

WHERE DID THIS DRIVE COME FROM?
My great grandfather was Samuel Gompers, founder of the American Federation of Labor. It's in my blood.

SO YOUR CORE HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE SAME?
Well, I’ve changed in some ways. And not in others. I started out as a Zionist. I wanted to go live in Israel. On a kibbutz.

Now I am anti-Zionist.

 It breaks my heart that Jews of the past were often in the forefront of civil rights. And now — the Zionist Jews are the oppressors.

That was a MAJOR change.

YES.
And I read The Feminine Mystique — that changed my life.

TELL…
Before, I was a typical American wife. When my husband's company considered transferring him — as much as I hated the thought of going to Delaware, I thought — well, I have to go. And then, I read The Feminine Mystique…

AND EVERYTHING SHIFTED …
It did.

Life #1: Shatzi at 21 in nurse’s uniform

Life #2: Shatzi, right, with pals at a Pride Parade in the 70s

WHAT DID YOUR LIFE LOOK LIKE PRE-AWAKENING?
I followed the script: Moved to the suburbs, bought a house. And decided that was not the life for me. I just wish it hadn't taken so long to come to that realization. But that's the way it was.

WELL, HOW LONG?
I was married for 18 years. Loooong time.

WOW, SO BALLSY OF YOU TO JUST SAY NO.

WAS YOUR HUSBAND SURPRISED?
I think he was relieved.

SO DID YOU COME OUT AROUND THAT TIME?
No. Much later.

I didn’t leave my marriage because I realized I was a lesbian.

I left my marriage because I wasn’t happy with my life.

SO, YOUR MOTHER WAS A LESBIAN LIVING WITH HER PARTNER WHEN YOU WERE A KID … WERE YOU AWARE OF THE RELATIONSHIP?
No. I sometimes thought about it. I often looked for a sign — a look — a touch. I never saw anything. That’s how closeted they were.

SAD.
It was against the law actually. And still is in some places, as you know.

DID YOU HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR MOM?
Unfortunately, no.  

HOW ABOUT YOU AND YOUR DAD?
It was kind of empty — wasn't anything there.

SO YOU WERE SELF-DEFINED IN A WAY.
Yes I was.

DID YOU WORK WHEN YOU WERE MARRIED? 
When I went to graduate school in nursing, it came with a stipend so I was able to hire a nanny. When I graduated, I worked. I was never a stay at home mother.

OH. YOU HAD CHILDREN …
Yes, I did.

THIS TRULY IS ANOTHER WHOLE LIFE YOU EMBRACED …
It was. It is.

WHAT IS SOMETHING YOU HAD TO LEARN THE HARD WAY?
Being a lesbian.

WAS THERE SHAME ATTACHED TO YOUR MOTHER? OR WAS IT A BIG LEAP EMOTIONALLY?
I sometimes try to get clear about it. I knew that I liked hanging out with lesbians. They’re just brighter and more involved. But being a lesbian …

WHEN I GO TO LA I HAVE BIG GROUP OF LESBIANS I HANG OUT WITH. I GET MY GAY ON. DID YOU HAVE A LONG RELATIONSHIP WITH ANOTHER WOMAN OR …
No, never. My mom was with her partner for 47 years. I haven't even been with one woman for 47 months.

BUT YOU'RE CLEAR — YOU LOVE LIVING ALONE. AND THEN YOU'RE OUT THERE.
I would adore it if I met somebody. I would love to have a kissing buddy. (We laugh)

IT'S A DIFFICULT TIME TO KISS RIGHT NOW…
Well, it’s not likely I’ll meet somebody. But in case I do … I miss physical intimacy.

DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A FEMINIST?
Absolutely, I am a feminist. But I’m not part of the feminist movement.

WHY IS THAT?
Because it’s still predominantly white — and for women with education.

AND YOU FEEL THEY SHOULD REACH OUT TO OTHERS?
Not just reach out — but be part of. Reaching out presumes an authority.

WHAT ABOUT ANTI-AGEISM?
I definitely support it but I’m not organizing around it. I’m living it…

HOW WOULD YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF?
I’m a lesbian. I’m a non-observing Jew. I’m a progressive. But primarily — I’m an organizer.

WHY ORGANIZING?
I like Collective work.

But I love to live alone.

YEAH, ME TOO. I JUST RE-DISCOVERED THAT AFTER LIVING WITH MY NOW EX-PARTNER THROUGH QUARANTINE…

SO WHO DO YOU ORGANIZE WITH?
Mainly Jewish Voice for Peace. We struggle for justice for Palestinians and we also collaborate with Black Lives Matter, LGBTQ, environmental issues, etc. I found my people.

And you don’t have to be Jewish to join …

YOUR LIFE! JAM PACKED. AND, AS A NURSE, YOU DEMONSTRATED WITH AIDS ACTIVISTS?
Yeah, I was a part of ACT-UP.

For a number of years. I did home care, taking care of people with AIDS.

YOU ARE JUST HEART-BREAKINGLY GLORIOUS …

“I would adore it if I met somebody. I would love to have a kissing buddy.”

ANY DESIRE TO BE YOUNG AGAIN?
No.  My body is deteriorating and that’s hard. But basically, I feel grateful that I’m 90 and can still walk, can still see, can still hear. And I feel very fortunate that I'm as well as I am.

WHAT WAS THE BEST TIME OF YOUR LIFE?
There have been segments. In my 40s, I was living with my best friend. She was married. I had a boyfriend. She had 2 kids. I had 2 kids. It was a very supportive living situation.

NICE.
And then. I had a very brief relationship about four years ago that only lasted five weeks but it was … HOT! (Really laughs)

YUMMMM

WHAT’S YOUR BEST TIME NOW?
For fun? I sing with the Brooklyn women chorus — socially relevant songs. And I’ve just taken on this gardening project in Brooklyn. I design. They’ll do the labor.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE TIME YOU HAVE LEFT ON THIS PLANET. ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THERE BEING LESS OF IT?
I have opposing attitudes. For instance, we had this appointment today. It wouldn't have been unusual, whatsoever, if the thought had crossed my mind: Well, I wonder if I'll still be alive at 1:00 to meet with Maryjane.

I GET THAT …
And at the same time, how is it possible that I wouldn't be here? Ridiculous. I have to be. I have things to learn, things to teach. I hold both these attitudes.

WELL, THAT'S KIND OF ATTACHED TO YOUR WORK ABOUT DEATH AND DYING: TALKING ABOUT IT, EXPLORING IT, AND YET STILL WANTING TO BE HERE.
Exactly — I facilitate a monthly zoom Life and Death Discussion Group. I’ve just arranged for myself a green burial — so I share that with people. It's an important part of my life right now.

YES! WE DON'T NEED TO HARM THE PLANET AS OUR FINAL GOODBYE TO THIS MORTAL COIL!

WHAT'S YOUR SECRET TO LONGEVITY?
I have no proof but I suspect the many nutritional supplements I take.
I always have a project I am passionate about.
I don’t get stressed easily.
I drink lots of green tea.
And I smoke dope every night.
I’ve been a life-long insomniac. A nightly toke relaxes me — and off to sleep …

Looking for Shatzi? You can find her on twitter at @peoplesbubbie

Glorious Being #14: Héctor Lionel

I promised you Spring!

Move over Prince

Razzle Dazzle baby!

Oh, I needed hope. I needed magic and I needed SPRING this April — or is it still March — or it May? And then I saw him. An image of Hector Lionel shared by a mutual friend — on his way to “hunt down groceries” looking glittery, vulnerable and powerful all at once. My friend said: "He can discuss everything from Plato to NATO. And a voice from heaven. One night he belts out La Vie en Rose on a mini staircase on Seventh Ave — woulda brought Piaf to her knees.” I knew right then— yes, Hector will be our next Glorious Being!

So, indulge me with this departure from our “usual” GBs (is there such a thing? Naaa) and meeet Héctor — a glorious mix of Prince and Puck — with a very large dose of Oscar Wilde — as we wonder aloud — “what next?”

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Singer, Actor, Playwright, Cabaret Artiste

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Part Peacock, Part Peter Pan, All Magic

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Fascinating, Fabulous, Old School Intellectual

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“It’s not enough to be accepted when we blend in. We need to be accepted when we stand out”

I SAW THAT CHARLES BUSCH FOLLOWS YOU — J’ADORE — YOU KNOW HIM?
We met on the street. We were having a conversation and in the middle of it I asked if he was an actor and he said: “Yes, my name is Charles Busch.” Oh my …. I knew his work but I just didn’t recognize him.

OOPS
Then he sent me the most precious note saying that he felt that he had gone back in time, and met his younger self that night …

 I treasure that note. That is New York to me.

YOU KNOW YOU GIVE OUT A DREAM LIKE QUALITY – I WOULD IMAGINE YOU MEET A LOT OF PEOPLE
ON THE STREETS.
I do.

SO HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE 24, A GLORIOUS AND AMBITIOUS BEING, AND THIS PANDEMIC — LITERALLY — STOPS US IN OUR TRACKS
It’s hard. I’m a struggling cabaret artist — and we need to work LIVE — with strangers sitting next to each other in the dark. This could be the sort of thing that stops a career from happening. You’re a singer because you sing. You’re an actor because you act. What happens when you can’t do those things? Are you still an artist? I ask myself daily. Very scary. 

BUT YOU’RE AN ONLINE GENERATION …
I’m an old soul. I don’t feel like a part of my generation in that way. I’m more tied to the past – my artistic sensibilities – my intellectual sensibilities…

AN “IRL” LIFE?
Definitely. It's very easy for me to walk into a crowded bar, get up and sing. See what the mood is. But it is a very different thing sitting in my home wide-streaming 10,000 people. What and who am I connecting to?

YOUR PHILOSOPHY OF LIFE?
I live by the Oscar Wilde quote: “We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.”

YOU LIVING IN A GUTTER?
Absolutely not. We are in our own universe in Bushwick, NY. If there was any way that I’d have to live through this period — it is here, our land of planetary magic. We call it Wanderstar.

“You’re a singer because you sing. You’re an actor because you act. What happens when you can’t do those things?”

DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE?
All the time now. On a good day, I think there’s a lot of potential poetry that can be born out of this chaos. Because it is literally in the air.

Some of the most creative periods followed crashes. The 30s,  then the 70s — when the city was literally crumbling, fabulism was born.

YOU LOOK LIKE YOU WERE HATCHED AS AN EXQUISITE FABERGÉ EGG. TRUE?
(Laughs) Born and raised in Puerto Rico! Arrived in NYC 4 years ago. I needed to come here to fulfill my destiny.

WHAT’S THAT DESTINY?
My main mission is called Boleros and all That Jazz  —  merging standards of the Great American songbook with their Latin American counterparts through a contemporary, queer filter. Old Spanish music has been playing like a sound track my whole life — the music my father and grandmother listened to and I chose to ignore. It wasn’t until later when I discovered the American music of that time spoke to me.

HOW WAS IT GROWING UP FABULOUS AND QUEER IN PUERTO RICO?
I won't say I didn’t suffer a lot. Walking down the street in Puerto Rico, wearing sequins, singing and dancing — it was hard, particularly for my dad, a small-town baseball hero — very macho. But now he and I have a special bond, a musical bond. To this day if I sing a song, any song at all, I sing it to him before I sing it to anybody else. 

CAN HE SING?
No. But he can play the conga.

WHAT GLORIOUS BEINGS WOULD YOU SHARE AN ISLAND — OR A DINNER — WITH?
I’d say Oscar Wilde, number one, Marlene Dietrich, Judy Garland, Piaf, Almodovar, Fosse, Liza, Chita Rivera, Rita Moreno, Evita, Louis XVI, David Wojnarowicz, Andy Warhol, and the Marchesa Luisa Casati — they’d be my dream guests at a dinner party.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT MY LGBTQ CONTEMPORARIES — THE ONES RAISING HELL AT STONEWALL AND PROTESTING IN THE STREETS WITH ACT UP?
We’re very lucky for the generations before us. I am one of the people who oppose this fake sense of normalcy you see in the gay community in recent years — this imitation of white hetero life — look at how clean they are — look at how professional they can be. I reject that completely ‘cause if it wasn’t for the people at the front line –the daddys and the drag queens — we wouldn’t have what we have today. It is not enough to be accepted when we blend in. We need to be accepted when we stand out.

AND YOU WELCOME PEOPLE OF ALL AGES INTO YOUR TRIBE, I HEAR?
I have friends from their teens to their 80s.

YOU ALSO REMIND ME OF A DREAMY PETER PAN. DO YOU RELATE TO HIM?
I dream of him a lot. My sensibilities are old, but I am young in the sense that I have a lot of energy and want to accomplish a lot. Sometimes I need to remind myself that I am only 24. And I’ve had those moments since I was 14, plotting to get out of Puerto Rico. I had the realization that age could be something that betrayed me.

I STILL HAVE THAT PETER PAN THING …  I CANNOT BELIEVE I AM NOW 70. BUT I FEEL LIKE 30.
That’s a difference between Puerto Rico and here. When I go home, I see my grandparents accepting what the world tells them: Dress your age, stop going out, take a nap. But my friends here, no way. My 70-year-old friend and I host a Sunday afternoon salon in Brooklyn where artists, writers, activists, scholars and historians of all ages and backgrounds come together for some boozy discourse and community building. We’re trying out a virtual format this Sunday.

WHAT’S YOUR MUG SAY?
Another Wilde motto: “One should be a work of art” — and on the back “Or wear a work of art.”

DO YOU EVER MISS AN OPPORTUNITY TO “GET DONE?”
Sometimes the surface can inform the substance. Perception is powerful. Like the lyrics from Chicago, mixed up with Cabaret to make another of my mottos: “Life is a cabaret so Razzle Dazzle ‘em — and all that jazz.”

When I use the term “all that jazz” — I use it loosely, same as Boleros, these are words that are meant to be provocative — of a certain period, a certain style and joi de vivre — and blurs English and Spanish.

DO YOU FEEL, CORONA ASIDE, THAT YOU WERE LIVING OUT YOUR DREAMS IN NEW YORK?
I was on my way to accomplish something — getting  my new play “Kiss of Marlene” on stage. And there were all sorts of friendships developing — people I wouldn’t have thought to be in the same room with a few years ago — much less friends. I did feel a part of a collective — but it was based on social interaction and cabarets … sigh. To have that stopped completely and without warning — heart breaking. 

I AM TOWARD THE BEGINNING OF MY LAST QUARTER OF LIFE — YOU ARE RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING. I HAVE REINVENTED MYSELF A ZILLION TIMES AND YOU MAY BE ON THE FIRST OF MANY ...
I truly hope so. I have nothing but ideas.

HOW DO YOU STAY HAPPY THROUGH THIS?
Painting, getting dressed up — the grocery store is my outlet. Trying out a new recipe, arranging flowers, doing a creative table setting. When everything else fails I turn on “The Dick Van Dyke Show.”

DID NEW YORK GIVE YOU THE FREEDOM AND EXOTICA YOU WERE AFTER?
Absolutely. That first year I was living the full fantasy — the bubble — seeing Broadway shows every week — my parents supporting me through school. I thought I really understood New York magic, but it wasn’t until the bubble burst that I found myself walking through Central Park at midnight, sitting by myself in a bar. This is the core of New York for me — you could walk into a crowded or empty bar, sit down and the person sitting next to you may have a life changing story.

I AM GETTING ALL VERKLEMPT OVER HERE. OUR CITY…
We have to really keep what it is that makes us want to move here. This is one of the biggest dangers of gentrification. Artists can't live here anymore and it becomes a ghost town for the rich. This may be our glorious time to take it back.

Hector will be fairly available till May 1st, like the rest of us New Yorkers and on his IG — a treat at @hectorlionel_jazz.

Glorious Broad #13: Elizabeth White

PHOTOS: Scott Pasfield

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Resilience Advocate, Author, Intellectual

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Stylish, Afro-Centric, Truth-Teller

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Scrappy, Wise, Confident, Worldly

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“Your net worth really is your network”

I love a gutsy Broad. A ballsy Broad. A brazen Broad.

And that in-your-face gumption is what drew me to Elizabeth White.

We met at The Atlantic’s New Old Age conference — and her speech knocked me flat. She talked about being jobless in her mid 50s— after havin' a HELLUVA career. But this time she was unable to “restart” — the way we ALL expect to “restart” — when your job “restructures” — aka, FIRES YOUR ASS. 

Sound familiar??? She suffered: shame, sadness, shock — and the unending grind of being BROKE AF. And then she said ENOUGH. She was sick of acting like everything is normal. Cause everything AIN’T normal. She was tired of faking it … she came clean. 

So she talked about it. She created groups about it … And she wrote about it. 

Her self-published book, 55, Underemployed, and Faking Normal, got covered by PBS, then she did a TEDTalk ... Her genius PR lady? That would be Elizabeth White. Her marketing guru — also Elizabeth White. And her updated second edition was published by Simon & Schuster in January 2019, thank you very much. 

Ebeth's commanding-yet-inviting presence projects “ask me anything.”

And so I did.

THIS QUOTE FROM YOUR BOOK SLAYED ME:
“You know me, I am in your friendship circle, hidden in plain sight. My clothes are still impeccable, bought in the good years when I was still making money. You wouldn’t know that my electricity was cut off, but if you paid attention, you’d see the sadness.”

I’VE BEEN THERE. YOU’VE BEEN THERE. SO MANY OVER 50’s HAVE BEEN THERE. TELL US ABOUT THE PAIN — THE SHAME …
I was in my mid 50s when the great recession happened. And from there, it all went downhill. The robust network — decimated. I am used to racism and sexism but now there was the new ism of age — and age discrimination changes your whole experience.

HOW DID YOU GET GOING ON YOUR “RESTART” …
I’ve had a life and career of restarts — I worked for the pillars of capitalism, then started my own Afrocentric lifestyle chain with stores in DC, Philadelphia, and NYC. But THIS was my biggest restart. When I got no traction, I got interested in starting a new career working with at-risk youth. So I did what I do: wrote letters/shook networks — NOTHING. I thought it would be a cool re-invention story …

OH! THOSE EASY-PEASY RE-INVENTION STORIES ARE TOTAL BS. REAL RE-INVENTION IS EFFING HARD WORK! SURE, IT CAN HAPPEN — BUT I’M SO TIRED OF THE BANKER TURNED PASTRY CHEF FAIRY TALE
… And when I tried to pivot and couldn't, when this latest search failed, I was in deepest despair.

Around that time I wrote an article for NEXT Avenue about what I was going through. It was then that my path to resilience was paved. It went viral.

LEAD US DOWN THIS PATH...
1.     First you’re “Fine”
2.    Then a catastrophic “event” happens (GB: like you lose your fucking job)
3.    You begin to define life “before X happened” – “after X happened”
4.    Then you wander the wilderness
5. Then – the glimmer flickers — for me, the NEXT essay

If you don’t pay attention or you become cynical — you won’t see that flicker. It’s a train coming at you — not a light at the end of the tunnel.

But I looked up — I saw the flicker — the reaction to my article showed me that I have the background, experiences, and discoveries to share a book — an inexpensive book filled with light.

AND WHAT ARE THOSE DISCOVERIES? WHAT IS THAT LIGHT?
That there is liberation in letting go and coming clean. And remember: IT’S NOT YOUR FAULT. That doesn’t mean you made perfect decisions — I did a bunch of dumb things when I had money …

LETTING GO OF THE SHAME IS A BITCH …
Oh please — my Harvard MBA couldn’t make the case. And I found myself in this emotional place at 57? Double loser!

SO, WHAT’S NEXT?
Now I am interested in a bigger picture —and thinking ahead in this different financial climate. Frugal innovation, learning from developing countries, $2,000 cars, tiny houses and — always — resilient circles.

AFRICA PLAYS A BIG PART IN YOUR STORY AND HOW YOU PRESENT YOUR FABULOUS SELF TO THE WORLD …
I worked in different parts of Africa with the World Bank for 12 years. Then, I was Chief Operating Officer of an economic non-profit focused on Africa. After that I sold products from Africa for my decorative home store. So — always — Africa …

“If you don’t pay attention or you become cynical — you won’t see that flicker. It’s a train coming at you — not a light at the end of the tunnel.”

WHAT WAS A FAVORITE TIME IN YOUR LIFE?
When my family moved from Libya to Italy. I LOVED the values, the style. Late trains, who cares. But a bad risotto now that’s a disaster.  Love that about Italy. I was there from 7th to 10th grades — and I’d stop traffic. I felt so appreciated for my ethnic beauty …

ARE YOU A WOMAN’S WOMAN?
I’m going to quote Mary Pipher’s here— and say “women friends are mental health insurance.”

ANY DESIRE TO BE 20 AGAIN?
No. I think of that 20 year-old with tenderness. Vulnerable. Experimenting. I am none of those things now.

DO YOU FEEL FREER AS YOU GET OLDER?
I am standing on the cusp of possibility. And financially too. So, yes.

HAS HAPPINESS CHANGED FOR YOU?
I am not seeking happiness as much as contentment. I love my work —it’s clear. It’s certain. And I can contribute.

WHAT DOES BEING GLORIOUS MEAN TO YOU?
Glorious feels full. Present. Clear, with direction and self direction.

Now, that’s a ballsy broad who has plenty to say about resilience, living frugally and living — GLORIOUSLY.

For more truth-telling, follow Ebeth @55fakingnormal and email her at fakingnormal@yahoo.com. Unemployed and Faking Normal is available on Amazon. And it rocks.

Glorious Broad #12: Lauren Ezersky

PHOTOS: CHRISTOPHER SCALZI / DISTILLED STUDIO

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: TV Host, Writer, Model

GLORIOUS PERSONA:  Moxie for Miles, Fashionista Behind the Scenes-ter

GLORIOUS QUALITIES:  Yonkers Tone and 'Tude, Signature Style, Brutal Honesty

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“I never say no to anything”

Lauren Ezersky has been on the New York scene for decades — as host of the cult fashion insider gab-fest  “Behind the Velvet Ropes” and writer of Paper Magazine's howlingly successful “Lunch with Lauren” column, she helped create the scene itself. You can't get more New York than that.

She's everywhere — watching my new fave Netflix brain freeze, Dating Around,  — who steals the show in episode 4? Lauren. Best line: “I’ve got class with a K, baby…” Amen, sistah!

The typical descriptions for Lauren? Eccentric, outlandish, hilarious — all true. Beyond the bon mots, her no bullshit take on getting on with life really drew us in. My lunch with the very Glorious Broad, Lauren Ezersky in NYC …

GB: Well, you nearly created reality TV.
I DID create reality TV. No doubt.

GB: Do “they” recognize you for that? You were so fucking good …
Probably not. You know, I used to interview the cab driver, the elevator guys, the street cleaners — all on the fly – and then get backstage and talk to designers. Nothing was staged.

GB: Favorite moments?
I did a great interview with Alexander McQueen in bed …

GB: Do you miss that in your life now?
Sure. But I’d want to do it right or I don’t want to do it. Now it’s all competitive kinds of shows — like who’s the next Michael Kors? It’s mean-spirited. That’s not what I wanna do.

GB: And at the same time as “Velvet Ropes,” you were writing the “Lunch with Lauren” column for Paper magazine — interviewing every top dog fashion designer. One of my favorites was with Donna Karan, where you said: 'So, Donna. Tell me. Do you, like, pig out at night?'  
(Laughing) Love interviewing …

GB: So “Behind the Velvet Ropes” ends in early 2000’s — around the same time Paper shutters your column — did this promp a whole “who am I now” phase? Was it hard?
Not really. I was burned out. I was doing all of the show — me and my skeletal crew did ALL. And I wrote the column for 8 years. I worked my ass off. So I really needed time off. I had a place in the Hamptons at the time — and I chilled. Now, I have a place in Hudson. Same thing. Chilling. But I never say no to anything — if it sounds interesting.

GB: And now, girl — you are an influencer!
I don’t even know what that means …

GB: Well, here’s an example. I saw all over Instagram that Lady Gaga showed up at some event sporting EXACTLY your look 20 some years ago. Wha!!! Were you pissed?
Someone sent that to me. I just thought it was really funny. But I did have that coat, that hair, that makeup … What do they say? Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery …

GB: You were ahead of the pack with your silver locks and black coal eyes among other things —an influencer before there were “influencers …”
The kids don’t know Liz Taylor much less me. But they do know Kim Kardashian, Kanye West and that whole crew. Half the people who are “influencers” don’t really have that much style. I look at the blogs and think — I would not do what this person says. They look terrible. And they don’t know fashion …

GB: With your signature look and Yonkers accent — you’ve always been your unapologetic self in the snobby fashion world. So — how’d you get IN? How’d you get the moxie?
I guess I didn’t give a shit. That helped. I went to an interview with a hot shot woman television host who shall remain nameless. And I told her “I love this kind of work, I wanna do your show, I think I’d be great at this.” You know what she said to me? “I am sorry to tell you, but you have a New York accent, you wear too much makeup. I think you should just try something else.”

GB: BIIIIIIIIIIIITCH
And let me tell you, that made me even more determined.
More than ever, I just kind of barged through. I got to really know EVERYBODY.

“Half the people who are “influencers” don’t really have that much style. They look terrible. And they don’t know fashion!”

GB: Your dark, exotic look has been “on brand” since before Karl sported his white ponytail — yet the blonde WASP type was the bomb then …
Oh it was. Cherry Tiegs, Christie Brinkley — that was the look. Little noses. You can thank Eileen Ford for that. And people who looked different got shit back in the day. I would approach certain people who were unique — like Lynn Yaeger, Vogue’s hottest writer — and tell her how fabulous she looked. She was shocked to hear that. Fashion is the one world that doesn’t accept really stylish people — which doesn’t make any sense. It’s the freaks, like me and my friends, that really make the trends. Someone can’t get a job at Vogue or Harpers Bazaar if they dress too outrageously — huh?  

 GB: Your parents: Did they “get” you?
Not really. I was the only child. That may have helped. I hated school. I kind of educated myself. They let me be …

GB: So what are you up to now? Where’s your passion going?
I model sometimes. But I am either too young for certain things – or not old enough. I’m not Carmen or Maye Musk — yet.  I do occasional TV. And travel’s what I want to do more of …

GB: I’ve been wanting to move to Paris for forever … been on my “bucket list”
Then just do it, ya know? Not just talk about it. I love New York. I’m never leaving …

GB: Are you a woman’s woman?
Yeah. And I’m not jealous. I love to hang out with beautiful women. I compliment, tell them ‘you’re so fabulous’ …

GB: Do you consider yourself a feminist?
Yeah. I lived my life as a man. I kind of did what I wanted. When I wanted. I just can’t put up with a lot of the man bullshit. Seriously. I just can’t. You have to make them like primary in your life. No. I don’t want to do that again.

GB: So what do you want from men now?
I’d like companionship. Someone to travel with — to love and be with. But I can’t say I will get married again or live in someone’s smaller space — unless they have a lot of money and a really BIG space.

All the age appropriate men though — which could be from 60 to 70 — they complain everything hurts them. Don't tell me 'cause I got my own issues. We're young and we're fabulous.

GB: Age appropriate’s okay, but I don’t want to hear desperate pleas either …
Yeah … I mean, everybody’s lonely, you just don’t want to hear about it…

GB: Do you miss being young?
Well, I can’t cause I’m not. If I could be 20 knowing what I know now — that would have been great. But it is what it is. Every day you learn something, get better — and then — poof — you die.

 GB: Do you tell your age?
Yeah. I’m 64.
Why deny it? Ridiculous.

GB: As you age, do you feel you are getting more happy?
No. I think aging kind of sucks — but the alternative’s not pretty. I think a lot of creative people are not as happy as they age — look at Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain. Life isn’t easy — no matter how much money or success. I’m relatively happy. But every day is mostly like mundane … you wake up, you have your coffee … it’s not that exciting. It would be great if it was — but — c’est la vie …

GB: What does being a Glorious Broad mean to you?
You know, I’m just me. And if somebody else thinks I’m fantastic — great. I don’t think I am so fantastic. I do think I’m unique  — everybody is unique. I’m not the girl next door. And that’s cool with me …

P.S. A little something extra — Lauren in her “Behind the Velvet Ropes” days ...

Can we just get this woman her own damn show please with a huge budget? I could have stayed awake through the Oscars if she was on the red carpet. ‘Till then we'll keep up with Lauren's being the “groovy gal about town” — that’s the sig on her IG account @laurenezersky — and it really says it all.

Glorious Broad #11: LEILA

King of her kingdom

ALL PHOTOS: HEATHER KOEPP

Hotness in the fridge at her studio lot …

Leila Barratt-Denyer is completely her unapologetic self — and the absolute opposite of her "breeding." A Persian brought up in WASPy England — she ditched her Laura Ashleys for androgynous hotness Eileen Myles-style when she landed in NYC. A long time pal and paramour in our rather rich past, Leila, at 50, is still constructing her throne of gloriousness. It's been a winding road — searching for what she was, fearlessly facing her demons to become a loving partner, mother, and owner of one of the leading photo and film studios in LA, Electric Pony with her long time friend, Jen Berkowitz. And she did it on her own and on her own terms. From being insecure about her talents to — get the hell out of my way — she's worked her ass off. Here's to amazing transformations ... and oh … NEVER underestimate the power of menopause …

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Trainer Cum Barrister Cum Photographer Cum Studio BOSS

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Head Turner, Late Bloomer, Straight Talker (if not Straight...)

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Raconteur, Motorcycle Mama, Plucky Survivor

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“I’m living my dream — not anybody else’s dream anymore.”

DID YOU KNOW YOU WERE GAY AT 16?
I knew I was a dyke at 6

… bed hopping at my all girls boarding school …

OOOO LA LA …
My girlfriends were Charlotte, Tiffany, Bunny. I was the baba ganoush among the wonder bread
(we laugh)

WAS THAT THE BEST TIME OF YOUR LIFE?
Ha. This moment right now is pretty amazing.

WHY’S THAT?
This studio is mine, girl. I’m living my dream — not anybody else’s dream anymore.

And there’s been more failures then successes. Trust me.

NOT THAT LONG AGO WHEN I WAS HERE, YOU HAD THIS BIG WIG JOB WORKING FOR DA MAN …
I got this fat corporate job when I moved to LA and said: Finally, America accepts me — because that’s always been my struggle: “They let me in …”

And then they fired my ass.

AND HERE WE ARE: ANOTHER RESTART …
I’ve had a life of restarts. 

RESILIENCE …
I’m a survivor. I’ve been lookin’ for home my whole life. My Mom’s Persian. Step dad’s English. Born in Iran, grew up in England. Part time France. Schooled in Australia. Taught preschool in Germany …

DID YOU SAY TAUGHT PRESCHOOL — LIKE MARY POPPINS?
More like Lady Di. My parents were like — oh, you need to be a preschool teacher like Lady Diana — that would be so fabulous … poor things …

OH MY …
When we moved to England, we’d go back to Iran every summer to see my aunts, uncles, grandmother — my family — but that all stopped after the revolution. Traumatic. That whole part of my blood — cut off …

THEN YOU WERE ALWAYS “THE OUTSIDER?”
I didn’t fit in in England. It’s racist, classist. It wasn’t me. I got to New York — and that was my town.

SO NO FEAR OF BEING ALONE …
Even with my partner and my kid — I do feel alone in the world — sometimes. I think it’s a fact I grew up with. I mean, I went to boarding school at 5 … gimme a break …

HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN YOU CAME TO AMERICA?
22

ANY DESIRE TO BE 20 AGAIN?
Yeah. My tits were great. (laughs)

HAS HAPPINESS CHANGED FOR YOU AS YOU GET OLDER?
Yeah. I’m miserable now. The older I get, the more miserable I am.

WAIT! YOU JUST TOLD ME THIS WAS ONE OF THE BEST TIMES OF YOUR LIFE.
This is the best time of my life. But I am in full blown MENOPAUSE. It’s a huge emotional shift I was not prepared for. I’m angry. AAAAAAAANGRY. And this was not me …

HMMMM, THIS ISN’T VERY GLORIOUS FOR MY MISSION …
You and I talked about menopause when you went through it. We both know… it’s a bitch.

WELL, I WAS SAD FOR 5 YEARS. IT COST ME MY RELATIONSHIP. BUT I THINK I’D PREFER BEING ANGRY TO SAD AND CRAZY. BUT I DID NOT PREPARE FOR MENOPAUSE — I DIDN’T UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS HAPPENING. AND WE ALL NEED TO — ‘CAUSE IT’S A WILD-ASS ROLLER COASTER RIDE …
It’s a monster ….

WHAT’S PARENTHOOD BROUGHT YOU? THE GOOD NEWS AND THE BAD NEWS.
Good: My daughter makes me want to be a better person.
Bad: I’m super conscious of not making the mistakes my parents did. But it conjures up a lot of emotional feelings about my childhood. It’s stirring the pot.

WHAT’S GETTING STIRRED?
You know “The Jungle Book?” I’m Mowgli, the little boy in the cartoon. I brought myself up … I’m dealing with those resentments now …

DO YOU TELL YOUR AGE?
Sure. I mean, nobody’s really asking — (we laugh) — what with MENOPAUSE …

DO YOU BELIEVE IN EXPIRATION DATES — FOR CAREER, LOVE, LOOKS, SEX …
No — my career really started in my mid 40’s. As for my looks, I used to look like Gina Gershon, now I look like Sylvester Stallone. Oh well. But my sex drive is not as good as it used to be … to say the least …

MENOPAUSE!

“From Gina Gershon to Sly Stallone.” Leila said that. We prefer the comfortable in her own skin version — SLY!

WHY LA LA LAND FOR YOU NOW?
A lot of Persians live here. It’s pretty nice living. I visited my pal/now studio partner in November, hanging around the pool in a bikini ... picking kumquats. I could be a motorcyle mama 12 months a year. It planted a seed …

NY’S ABOUT THE CULTURE. BUT YOU WERE WORKING TOO HARD FOR THAT EX-BOSS OF YOURS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT.
It was time to leave. But, to quote a friend, behind the palm trees and sunsets and the weather and the mountains and the ocean … LA’s a tricky bitch. And she was right.

TO DO BUSINESS …
Yeah. NY people look you in the face and say, “Yep, you got the job,” or, “Nope, you didn’t get the job.” In LA: That’s not how it works. Here they meet you, they love you — but as soon as you walk out that door, they don’t know you.

BUT YOU DID IT …
Yeah. Not over night. I fell on my face with that first job.

WHAT WAS THE BIGGEST RISK YOU’VE TAKEN?
It’s all risk. The way I’ve always lived — new countries, new jobs, new loves. I’ve never had a strategic plan.

HAS THE MEANING OF SUCCESS CHANGED FOR YOU?
I don’t think I’m successful. I still need to hustle. The fear of losing this is still drivin’ me …

LET’S TALK ABOUT THAT TRANSFORMATION FROM ‘YOUNG DI’ TO THE WOMAN I’M LOOKING AT NOW — SOOO DIFFERENT FROM MOM’S EXPECTATIONS …
I was transformed the second I came to America and tossed off my Laura Ashley dress and all the values that went with it. In fact, it was seconds after the plane landed.

As for my mother’s expectations — that’s a novel, not an interview…

I LOVE YOUR STYLE. FROM THE MOMENT I MET YOU A ZILLION YEARS AGO, YOU HAD IT.
You either have it or you don’t. When I first came to NY, I became an individual — instead of my parent’s accessory. Then my style just naturally came to me. And it has evolved …

AND THAT’S WHEN YOU CAME OUT?
Well, let’s not forget all the Charlottes and Tiffanys… but yeah. You know, I thank God every day that I am a lesbian. There is not one moment that I would swap.

WHY?
Well, it’s who I am to begin with. And no expectations in terms of tradition, grandchildren, my relationship ... FREEDOM. Even my mother’s given up. I was randy and furry before it was trendy — but I am Persian …

I am so comfortable in my own skin now. And it just gets better as I get older.

”AS I GET OLDER I GET LESS AND LESS IN THE WAY OF MYSELF” — LOVED THAT LINE THOUGH I CANNOT FIND THE AUTHOR — MAYBE IT WAS ME?
Well, whoever it is — I relate too.

FOR ME, IT WAS THAT NEED TO BE COOL … IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME … VANISHED.
I don’t give a shit what anybody thinks. I am so into my partner and kid situation — and I’m gonna do it right.

THAT’S ON YOUR WAY TO BEING GLORIOUS…
Remember last year when I visited you — and your knickers were in a twist ‘cause some guy completely ghosted after you were dating for five months? And he confessed he had two kids who LOATHED him?

DO I EVER …
Well, that’s the parent I’m never gonna be. I told you, in future — maybe put on your dating profile or the title for your next book: IF HIS KIDS HATE HIM — YOU WILL TOO

A BOOK BEGGING TO BE WRITTEN …

“It’s nice when you turn the corner and life takes over.”

LET’S GO BACK TO THE RANDY LEILA I KNEW … ARE YOU MISSING THAT GIRL? IS IT A TRADE OFF TO THE COMFORTING HOME LIFE YOU HAVE NOW?
Hardly a trade. It’s just what is.

DO YOU MISS A SEXUAL LIFE?
No.

HOW’S YOUR PARTNER FEEL ABOUT THAT?
She probably wants me to be randy.

BUT YOU ARE BOTH HAPPY …
There’s no other person for me. She doesn’t tap into my insanity bullshit. So, we kind of really complement each other. You know what it is? She’s kind. I don’t need to fuck my brains out 24 hours a day now — I guess I just needed a little kindness in my life, ya know?

DID YOU EXPECT THIS WHOLE PACKAGE?
No. Never. I just show up. We’re so busy trying to control everything — it’s nice when you turn the corner and life takes over.

WHAT’S YOUR PASSION RIGHT NOW?
This dog you hate. (I DO.) My family. And I can honestly say I love what I do.

WHAT’S SOMETHING YOU NEEDED TO LEARN THE HARD WAY?
Controlling my temper. Back to MENOPAUSE!

It’s turned up that flame a lot higher. Like, now I really don’t have tolerance for any bullshit.

THAT MIGHT BE THE BENEFIT OF GETTING OLDER. NO BULLSHIT.
But I take it to extremes. MENOPAUSE!

WHAT WOULD YOU DO OVER AGAIN IN YOUR LIFE?
I wish I had figured out my passion and do all this earlier. I wasted so much time not knowing what I wanted. You’re lucky. You always knew.

DO YOU HAVE A MESSAGE FOR YOUNGER WOMEN?
Don’t be afraid to speak your mind. When I walk into a room now, I see people’s spines straighten up. And I’m okay with that. Be yourself. Speak out.

I NEVER THOUGHT OF YOU AS A WIMP — BUT WHEN DID THIS SHIFT HAPPEN FOR YOU?
LA. Fresh start. People didn’t know my fuckups, they didn’t know me in the industry. They didn’t know squat.

SO WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO YOUNGER WOMEN — WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO YOURSELF?
Same thing — trust your own instincts. You knew me in those younger days. You’d say: Leila, you have an eye when I was working as a photographer. But my insecurities got in the way. I didn’t push myself to the front of the line … and I should have.

But this is what I have to say to women our age and trying to get back inside the workforce — cause — duh — it can be tough — and ageist. This was my big lesson …

DO TELL …
Put your egos and pride aside. Like when I got fired unceremoniously. OK? I couldn’t find a job for six months. Murder. Then someone offered me a job I was way too good for, I mean, I could make more at Starbucks. I am not exaggerating. I swallowed my pride and just did it to survive. Through that experience — through going all the way to the bottom — again — I figured out what LA was about: the land of make believe — that’s what this town was built on.

YOU MEAN MAKING MOVIES, VIDEO … MAKE BELIEVE …
Yeah. Once I figured out that simple truth — I was like — I can do this. I know what they need.
My point is —you can’t look at your resumé and say I am too good for this, I was VP of that — it doesn’t fuckin’ matter.

THIS REMINDS ME — A FELLOW COLLEAGUE AT A NOW DEFUNCT MAGAZINE SAID: “THAT GUY THINKS HE WAS REALLY SOMEBODY IN THE BIZ. WHAT HE DOESN’T REALIZE IS — WE WERE ALL SOMEBODY IN THE BIZ. IT DOESN’T FUCKIN’ MATTER NOW.” THAT WAS SUCH A GREAT REALITY CHECK. “BE HERE NOW” (TO QUOTE THE DEARLY DEPARTED RAM DASS)
Seriously. And if it’s something that’s not even on your path — like if you had to go pump gas to figure it out, then that’s what you gotta do. Because one thing will lead to another.

I HAVE A FRIEND IN HER 50s AND SHE CAN’T LET GO OF THE RAGE SHE HAS WITH HER PARENTS …
Oh. That’s the basis of my rage. I am working on it! But MENOPAUSE! (we laugh) amped it — I’d just like to be over with the rage. Remember the show “Six Feet Under” — that final epic scene — when the brother and sister are sitting on the couch, and they are still complaining about their parents, and the brother literally just dies — talking about mommy and daddy. That’s basically my fear …

I DON’T KNOW HOW GLORIOUS IT IS — BUT THAT’S VERY FUNNY.
I’m on my way to gloriousness, girl ... I’m 50 so it’s time. And also, I’m only 50 and I’ve got time! But no more time for MENOPAUSE — it’s trying to kill me!

You’ll find the glorious Leila workin’ 24-7 at Electric Pony Studios — riding her kick-ass motorcyle — and scathing Trump on facebook. As for menopause — prepare for it — talk to your fellow GBs. It makes all the difference.

Glorious Broad #10: Faith Ringgold

Photo by Bryant Norman

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Painter. Feminist. Educator. Author. Activist.

GLORIOUS PERSONA: A No-Holds-Barred Glorious Broad

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Persistent, Creative, Fun, Ferocious

GLORIOUS FACT: She waited fifteen years – FIFTEEN – for her memoir, We Flew Over the Bridge, to get published. And what did she do in the interim? How about authoring sixteen award-winning books at last count. And she is still at it...

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“I don’t buy expiration date — as a woman — as an artist — as an activist. I will do what I can do when, where I can do it. So there it is...”

GB: Faith's fierce face beckoned me as I was flipping through a New York Times T Magazine article called “Works in Progress." While I was aware of her art, and thrown by her looks, it was her spirit that clinched me with the quote “If you live long enough and you persist, you are going to get recognition. You have to stay in the game.” I wrote her that very same night asking for an interview and immediately got back the response: “Let’s do it.”

We met in her spacious studio — walls filled with art, sculpture, exhibits she was orchestrating. She was warm, she was funny and she was sheer power. We talked of our mutual love for Dinah Washington, for all things old jazz. She told me a story of her move to Jones Road in New Jersey, where she still lives. It was a story of racism she had never experienced before. She came from Harlem and hadn’t a clue — but oh, she prevailed. She ended her tale with “you really don’t know who you’re messing with.”

Faith is having yet another moment at 89. She recently sold her painting American People Series #20: Die to Museum of Modern Art and her work is being displayed around the world like never before.

It is an honor to share this No-Holds-Barred Glorious Broad I had the good fortune to spend an afternoon with.

STAYING IN THE GAME: 10 Questions for Faith

WHO DO YOU CREDIT FOR YOUR DRIVE?
My mother.  You work hard and you will get where you are going. Just keep going. That was my mother.

DID YOU EVER HAVE TO HIT "RESTART" — A PERIOD OF COMPLETELY STARTING OVER?
No. I’ve never had to hit restart. I never stopped. When I had kids, there were certain media I could not work in … so I worked smaller. I made dolls. I made sculpture. But — I’m working. All the time. 

YOU DIDN'T QUIT YOUR "DAY JOB" AS AN EDUCATOR UNTIL YOU WERE 41. NOW, THAT'S PERSISTENCE ...
Well, it took me until the 80s, when I was in my 50s, before things got really good and I was able to live off my art. And that’s because I stayed in the game and had so many wonderful people who helped me to reach my goals, like Robert Newman at my first gallery. I will never forget him …

WHY?
He was the first gallery I had ever been in, The Spectrum Gallery. Art was HUGE in the 60s — and I was the only one working smaller and more political. He wanted me to just do what I was doing — but let’s see what would happen if you get bigger. He gave me the keys to his gallery when he closed it to the public and said — here’s your studio for the summer. That’s when I did Die, my first really big painting — and The Flag Is Bleeding.

“I was there when they said Black Power. I thought...wow...when have you ever heard of power and black used in the same sentence. It was a fantastic time to be alive and I was so glad that I used that time to record it.”

WHAT'S THE BIGGEST RISK YOU'VE TAKEN IN YOUR LIFE?
Being an artist! If I had known the problems of being an artist, what you have to go through and how HARD it is, I wouldn’t have done it. And that would have been a mistake I now know. But it took everything …

IF YOU WERE TO CHOOSE A GLORIOUS TRIBE TO LIVE WITH — WOMEN YOU ADMIRE — WHO WOULD THEY BE?
I am gonna start with Hillary. She is brilliant! And should have been President … and Louise Bourgeois, Selma Burke, Elizabeth Catlett, Louise Nevelson … I had been to her house. There was no furniture that I can remember — it was all sculpture. All of these women were very very powerful, very inspiring.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR FEMINISM...
Let me tell you how I BECAME a feminist. I was involved with the black power projects. I was recognizing the fact that the art world was exceedingly racist and we were trying to open up the museums so that black artists were getting in. So, we were going into the Museum of Modern Art with the art coalition group to demonstrate against the fact that no black artists were there... they would invite the men artists to come and sit around the table and — you know —  talk about the “situation.” Now, I was the one who had mostly engineered this demonstration, and yet, I am not even invited to sit around the table...  The next demonstration I called was at the Whitney. And that one was to demonstrate against the fact that there were no women being shown in the Whitney Biannual — and that — that was powerful! 

GB: GORILLA GIRL!!!

YOU'VE FOUGHT FOR FEMINISM, AGAINST RACISM, SEXISM ... WHAT ABOUT AGEISM?
At this point, I just live my life! And we’re not going away! We’re no longer just some little old person sitting in the corner. I just became a vegetarian this last year, taking 30-day challenges and feel fabulous. Bad food doesn’t taste good to me any more. How’s that from a former junk food lover ...   .

TELL US ABOUT THIS PROJECT YOU ARE WORKING ON...THIS QUILTUDUKO...
It’s an app I designed based on Sudoku. Wrote the music for it and  have more than sixty diagrams and thousands of beautiful images. They keep that brain functioning and use the color and design for it.

WHAT MESSAGE DO YOU WANT TO GIVE YOUNGER WOMEN OUT THERE?
Be generous. Help people … not only maintain your success and achieve it –— but pass it on …

WHAT’S NEXT FOR YOU?
I’m brewing. I’m not done yet. I’ve got so much more to do.

GB: Let me get this straight: Faith wanted to take a break from writing and making art — so she invented a game requiring over 60 visual diagrams and then wrote the music for it. And she has a new book out since I interviewed her on Amazon called “A Letter to my Daughter, Michelle Wallace.”  Ummm, what did YOU do today?

Faith is GB's Queen. That simple. You can learn more about her on her site faithringgold.com.

Describing her new project: Quiltuduko

Glorious Broad #9: Michele Saunders

PHOTOS BY ADAM DEEN

GLORIOUS PROFESSION: Realtor, Location Scout, Creative Catalyst

GLORIOUS PERSONA: Scenester, Bon Vivant, Direct

GLORIOUS QUALITIES: Independent, Provocative, Chic … in other words … French

GLORIOUS PHILOSOPHY:

“Life is just a few passports ...”

GB: Michele picked me up in her funky pickup truck in upstate New York, just off the Hudson, looking effortless and weirdly stylish in her red and black checked lumber jacket and lime locks  — surrounded by one million cassette tapes and two croissants for the road. We drove to her glorious home that has as many layers and stories as she does

There’s a certain kind of woman that brings out the tongue-tied Mary Richards in me. Michele, meanwhile, is Marianne Faithful. When you interview the coooooolest 75-year-old in the world — that’ll happen. An afternoon spent with the funny, no beatin’ around the bush Glorious Broad, Michele Sanders …

WHEN YOU WERE YOUNGER, DID YOU IMAGINE YOU WOULD BE THE GLORIOUS BROAD THAT YOU ARE TODAY?
I thought I’d be a nun when I was 10 years old — and then I started to listen to rock and roll. Suddenly, I didn’t want to be a nun any more. Then, I thought I’d be a journalist, reporter, traveling. And I always loved dancing!

WHAT WAS YOUR BIGGEST INFLUENCE GROWING UP?
Music. Dancing. And Mount Holyoke College. I was on the French university’s ski team and had a terrible ski accident. So I applied for a scholarship to study in America and landed a Fullbright that sent me off to Mount Holyoke. I go back now and see boys in and out, girls kissing together. Back in my day — so completely different.

WHY SUCH A BIG INFLUENCE?
It was the 60s! I wanted to listen and see everything. My background is very bourgeois, very goody two shoes, very Catholic — though I am half Jewish ( I mean, look at me!) and I reacted to all this energy. I didn’t so much rebel — just came into my own.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR CAREER. YOU JUMPED AROUND A LOT EARLY ON, NO?
Not really. I married a guy from Yale when I left college — lived in Amsterdam where I became an agent representing English and French photographers. Moved back to Paris and worked with Elite models representing photographers, stylists, then went to America and became an agent for Art Kane for 3 years, then doing production, casting through the 70s and early 80s. After that moved to Miami to become a prop stylist. Now I’m upstate and am in location sighting. I don’t do anything but open the door, close it and make sure the place doesn’t have trash laying around. (Laughs) … But same world.   

YOU’RE GIVIN’ OUT INDEPENDENT AND SINGLE … BUT YOU WERE MARRIED?
I feel I was always single. But — oops — wasn’t for those 7 years in Amsterdam, and a brief marriage to a musician — a very sexy bad boy. Lasted one year — but it got me my citizenship!

WHY AMERICA FOR YOU?
The grass was greener for me here. The freedom!

WHEN WERE YOU AT YOUR HAPPIEST?
One of the best moments for me ever is when the DJ plays house music that resonates for me and I’m feeling good. That’s one of them. Or … when it’s really good spring snow — and I’m killin’ it on the slopes — total bliss ….

OK, CLUB KID. I WAS ONE TOO. STUDIO 54 MY FAVE. YOU?
54 too druggy for me. The best thing about my second husband was that he introduced me to Paradise Garage. I used to call it my church. Lots of famous people went there — Keith Herring, Madonna, Grace Jones, Basquiat, but it wasn’t about that. It was about the music. It was basically a gay, Puerto Rican, black club where I felt totally at home.

ANY DESIRE TO BE 20 AGAIN?
Sure! Absolutely.

FOR THE ENERGY? DANCING ‘TILL 5 AM?
No. I still do that. To have time to do everything I want to do. It’s horrible — when you’re 75 it’s like ohhhhh …

THE LIMITED TIME THING …
If I were 20 at least I’d know I’d have plenty of time! When I hear things like: oh in three years — or this is good until ______. I have an Amex card good until 2022 — ??? How many times am I going to renew my passport? Life is just a few passports …

“When you’re older, the truth is, one thing you cannot do is — try to look “sexy” — that is so bad.”

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IN THE BIGGEST RISK YOU’VE TAKEN IN YOUR LIFE?
Having a child. At 45. Single.

DID YOU WANT TO HAVE A CHILD FOR A WHILE?
No. And I can tell you a single mom here in New York — it’s not easy. A walk-up — 5 flights in a stroller … 

Having a child is the most difficult thing. Ever. You are trying to do so many things and it doesn’t always work out. But it was incredible. I became a better person. I was selfish and it made me unselfish.

WAS HAVING YOUR CHILD ALSO A RESTART?
Oh yeah. In so many ways. That’s when I moved  — Miami was easier with the kid. And it kept me current. I am friends with my son’s friends now  – they are all kinds of artists fashion oriented … I am completely relating to them.

I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT YOU WERE IN MIAMI FOR SO LONG …
It was for the kid … That’s why.

THE CULTURE?
What culture?

DO YOU TELL YOUR AGE?
All the time now. I used to lie. I lied about it between the ages of 40 and 45 because I was always with guys who were half my age. It got a little weird. But when I had my son, I never lied again.

LOVE LIFE NOW?
I’m not interested in sex now. Makes things easier. It’s freed me up to do things I might not have dared when I was younger. I can talk with the hottest guy — I don’t have a problem with any of that because I’m not trying to attract anybody — specific — or at all.

WHEN DID THIS CHANGE HAPPEN?
After I had my child.

DO YOU THINK YOUR ESSENTIAL CORE HAS CHANGED AS YOU AGE?
I’m totally the same. Totally. I don’t see anything different. The body! That’s what’s changed. When I see things hanging, I don’t like it.

BUT YOU SEEM PERFECTLY AT EASE WITH AGEING PHYSICALLY …
What am I gonna do? Of course I am completely at ease. But it doesn’t mean I always like what I see. Especially when I wear something and I think it feels good, and I look in the mirror and it’s not happening. ‘Cause usually I know. That’s very annoying.

WELL, YOU’RE PULLING IT OFF 90% OF THE TIME. GIVE US SOME TIPS!
When you’re older, the truth is, one thing you cannot do is — try to look “sexy” — that is so bad. You’re better off being comfortable with a certain way of walking — so I am very careful with the way I step. That changes everything. I love rocking shoes that are really very different from what “older women” wear. If I buy a piece at Dobert Market or Opening Ceremony, it’s not to try to look younger, it’s because it makes me walk a certain way — feel a certain way.

DO YOU FEEL THERE IS A DIFFERENT ATTITUDE ON AGEING IN FRANCE VERSUS AMERICA?
Yes. Completely. In America, it’s everything or nothing.  Either who cares or grotesque and obsessed. There is a problem.

DO YOU HAVE A GLORIOUS TRIBE OF COMRADES?
I surround myself with interesting people ‘cause otherwise, well, I don’t need to be with anybody unless they are interesting. I’m completely happy by myself. A great influence in my life is my friend Patricia Field. I have been in and out of her world, which used to be mine at times, but I have my world of skiing and upstate.

DO YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A FEMINIST?
I am for people.

LET’S TALK ABOUT YOUR VERY PARTICULAR STYLE — FASHION IS A BIG THING FOR YOU …
Well, wait. It’s an expression for me. Difference. I’ve done some things and I like to mix them up and don’t go for any specific trend. I just do what I feel like — according to the day.

AND THAT CLOSET, GIRL …
I collect a lot of stuff. I would not call myself a horder at all. I hate that word. Everything is super organized. It’s things that I love that make me happy.

WHAT’S THE KEY TO THAT JOY YOU’RE GIVIN’ OUT?

Smoking weed! A little hit in the morning.

And in the evening, a little bit of wine.

Michele is da bomb. Make yourself happy by following her on instagram @michelesaunders43